To get wound up about MN and sleep advice

[LittleMilla]

I love MN and will often come on to get advice...can normally count on it for sensible pointers for everything except for sleep.

AIBU to wonder why noone on MN seems to want their children to sleep through the night? I no of noone in RL who co-sleeps - but everyone on MN seems to? And people seem to think it's entorely normal for a 8 month old baby to wake repeatedly through the night.

I just don't get it. So much valuable advice...yet everyone on here seems to go madly soft when it comes to sleep.

Am I the only one?

I really disagree pit. I love my children, I nurture them, I cuddle them and engage with them all day long. They are well aware they are extremely loved. 7pm onwards is grownup time. Always has been since they were about a month old. I did cio with both my girls around a month old I think. I would say they have cried in total less than 20 minutes all together their whole lives- ten minutes each day for two days,, then never cried again.I would imagine that's cumatively far far less crying than a child who.is still waking at night and crying out at 2 yrs old.
It also means we are always all rested out to enjoy the next day. Far better for the child imo.
But, each to their own.

"if sleep training involves leaving a baby to cry, I take mild delirium. What is a bit more delirium... over teaching a baby that it can not communicate its need....well it can , but it must learn it will be ignored."

This is a really bizarre meme. You don't know that. It is an improbable theory.

Your baby will grow and be a child. That child will want things and cry. You will sometimes need to leave him to cry for a bit rather than give him what he wants, whether it's sweets rather than food or TV at all hours.

When that happens, your child will not be taught he "can't communicate his need" or "learn he will be ignored".

A baby who is loved, taken care of, and shown affection all day every day cries for a bit for a few nights - so what, really? That doesn't mean he is being neglected, learning that nobody loves him, or his needs are ignored whatever he does. That is just absurd, and based on no evidence whatsoever.

When I was delirious with sleep deprivation, when DS was around 9 months old and waking 3 or 4 times a night, I met up with a friend who said her two had both slept through from six weeks.

You're lucky, I said. She replied that no, it was all down to her wonderful DH and his 15-minute rule.

From birth, her two would only be responded to after 15 minutes of crying. He would apparently sit outside their room with a stopwatch (yes, separate rooms from birth) and refuse to let her see to them. No bloody wonder they both slept, then.

The point of this story? That it's rare you know what goes on in other people's homes. That what us abhorrent to one parent is normal to another. And,that, when she shared that tale with me, I was quite happy to have DS carry on waking rather than do the same.

Fwiw he began sleeping through at 10 months. Sheer luck, I didn't change a thing...

Let me get this straight- You're getting angry at being told you're lucky?...So you must be doing something we're not doing to get your babies to sleep through at 8 months?Well aren't you the best mum ever. Well done.
Please can you just leave other people alone to get a bit of support when they need it. Sleep is so important and if we have to co-sleep or rub our babies back to get some then why on earth does it bother you?

Do I go on sleep threads? No.

Is this a thread asking for sleep advice? No.

Is this a thread talking about sleep and sleep advice? Yes.

I won't leave anyone alone because there is no one that I am specifically targetting.

What an odd post.

Humphrey, have you considered weaning him earlier? Obviously it is easier for me to consider that as I first became a parent quite a while ago when there weren't these restrictions ages to start weaning.

Is the issue currently that he just wakes up in the night or is there ever a problem getting him to sleep in the first place?

Does he have a dummy?

Also when you say you're keeping him in the room, do you mean you don't want him moved out of where you sleep or that he is always in the same room as you, such as if you were reading in the kitchen when he slept, he would be there too

May be a strange question, but do you ever just give him water rather than milk?

Can i just say both mine are teenagers now, They sleep all night and all day given the choice, when they were babies, i think they were both waking up at least once a night a night at 8 months but i cant remember, so in the end all children will sleep, Of course now i wake up three times a night and cant sleep at all, that would have been handy 17 years ago...

Re this luck issue, there are crudely put three kinds of babies:

1. Babies who sleep well even if their parents practice bad'sleep hygiene'
2. Babies who sleep well (only) if their parents practice good 'sleep hygiene'
3. Babies who sleep badly no matter what their parents do.

If your baby falls into group 1 or 2 you are lucky.
If your baby falls into group 3 you are unlucky.

Simples!

I honestly haven't the faintest idea at what age my DDs slept through the night.

I'm not convinced any such age exists. Most toddlers and pre school DCs still want cuddles when they are ill, have a nightmare or just want company. How often this happens reduces, but I never found it a great problem.

Yes sleep deprivation with tinies is really tough, but a cuddle, a breast feed and a fall asleep hugging a six month old who co-sleeps perfectly motionless and happily goes back to her own bed when your arm goes dead is no great problem.

DD1 didn't co-sleep, she was a diabolical fidget, but she two was pretty easy to get back to sleep in her own cot.

Sleeping through was never a big deal. Sleeping between 5-8 am was!

I'm a night owl, 3am I can be quite nice, 6am I'm NOT!

Pitmountainpony - Sleep training does not always involve leaving a baby to cry.

Humphrey you will probably flame me for this but I coslept with my DS3 (my worst sleeper) for periods around the 5m stage and without doubt this made his sleep far far far worse. There is also no way on earth he'd have slept more than 45 minutes when kept in the same room as us during the evening.

I found that when we moved him to his own room he still woke up, a bit, and I went straight away to feed him, but he woke far less than he did when cosleeping, simply because we were not disturbing him.

When cosleeping he'd wake 5-8 times a night.

When in his own room he'd wake say 2-3 times a night, which IMO would be totally normal for a 5mo.

Obviously everyone is different but I preferred getting up those 2-3 times a night, and sitting on a chair in his room to do a feed, because I slept better in between said feeds. When cosleeping I never slept properly, and used to wake feeling like death warmed up, but I fully accept that that's just me, and that others sleep very well with their babies beside them.

Difficult I know because of the SIDS advice, but if you are asking for advice (that doesn't involve CIO) I'd say put him in his own room. I can't advise on reflux though as mine never had it, and in that I will absolutely agree that I was 100% lucky. Reflux must be a living hell for you and LO and I'm really sorry you and DS are having to cope with it.

Oh no Cote you must NEVER reveal on MN that you have left your baby to cry for ANY reason!

I once received my worst ever slating when I mentioned I'd left my 3mo to cry for a few minutes whilst I cleared up my 2.5yo who had wet herself. Apparently I should have left my DD to cry, and the wee seep into the carpet, whilst I put DS in a sling. Evil mother - putting a CARPET before her poor BABY!

He won't have a dummy
He is breastfed, so no water
He is in the room with me for naps and sleeping till six months and sleeps better through noise.
Will wait till six months due to multiple allergies in the family
He goes to sleep fine but doesn't stay that way..

honestly MamaPain, it is so nice of you to bother

dietcoke, no flaming but I know it wouldn't work... he would just be awake and screaming. I am not a natural co sleeper, I really would rather not do it.

I am just trying to make the point that I am not responsible for the waking, I and everyone else with a wakeful baby, wants them to sleep.

Great....if so little crying out was involved when you sleep trained. But that is not the case for some kids that are left to cry for much longer.
I disagree with it and actually there is evidence that it is not good for the developing brain....to be flooded with stress hormones because they want to be comforted. We know very little about the brain so our understanding is developing but the stuff I read by people that do know about the brain and how stress hormones affect it, well you will not find them advocating leaving children to cry for long periods. Because those hormones affect the brain. Who knows how that can manifest I later life. Personally I would rather be a bit more knackered than you are anyway for a few years.....clearly when children are older you can speak to them and explain so it is not as stressful on the brain, but a baby that is crying and wanting comfort that does not come, that is a stressful situation because they are learning that their needs are not as important as mummy and daddy having grown up time. How can a small child possibly understand that?

Oh and Humphrey.

At 5 months, honestly I don't think you need to be trying anything else. DD2 slept in the carseat a few nights. She was never diagnosed with reflux or anything, but she was a vomity baby and went through a period where she hated sleeping flat. We got her a vibrating bouncy chair which seemed to help.

During the day she was basically lying on me all the time. I demand fed. At night she went into the moses basket. Every night. Nights where she was bad with wind/vomity I put her in the bouncy chair or carseat and I dozed, with the bedside lamp on. I can't sleep with lights on so it kept me alert enough to wake of she needed me.

Like I said upthread, it wasn't until nearly 7 months that she slept through in her own room. But by then the vomiting had stopped. I would imagine that a reflux baby would need to be kept with you for much longer and I wouldn't expect him to be sleeping through.

I must get faster at posting. Sirzy and Fadbook, that's interesting as for us sleeping through is the norm. Although not all the adults in our house at the moment are family (joys of having adult children).

Perhaps and overall attitude towards sleep as a family plays a part? I don't have any evidence to support that, am just musing. I suppose my DC from a very young age would be aware that waking in the night, getting up or whatever is just not on in this house so I expect if they did wake up for silly reasons would probably have gone back to sleep quite quickly.

That's not to say I haven't had my fair share of wakings!

Humphrey - have you read "no cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth Pantley? Kind of a tool box of different things you can try.

I co-sleep with my 2yr old.. My 6 month old sleeps in her cot... They are mini people who prefer different things I'm not soft.. Just a mum who wants sleep.. And co sleeping is the only way I will get it

And people seem to think it's entorely normal for a 8 month old baby to wake repeatedly through the night.

It is normal - Evidence based research

Bee

Pitmountainpony

What is a long period of crying though?

They cannot understand but they do come to learn that when they communicate a need it will be ignored when it is not convenient for its carers. I just do not think that is an optimum situation for a child. I realise that people who do do cry it out reject that research but frankly I respect the research and because there are so few conclusions in science of a new frontier like brain research, all you can go on is what research is available, and I am convinced by the research that shows how cortisole ( sp?)
affects brain pathways. Daniel seagal is interesting on this stuff.

I am feeling the support ladies
I have that book Fadbook, will dig it out

off to bed now

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you must have been on a sleep thread seeing as that is the subject of your OP. I will leave you to slag of the parents of sleepless children in peace.

I co slept with #2 because he would only sleep at night while physically touching me. Now at 12 months he'll come in from side cot for a feed then often roll back into cot to sleep afterwards. He has slowly, gradually been able to sleep with more and more distance between us.

He slept much better as a young baby than my eldest who was in a Moses basket to start, even if he insisted on being nose-to-boob at the time, so I counted myself as lucky.

Of my group at baby group, most babies still woke at 8 months. A few still do at 12m. My eldest only stopped waking most nights at 2.5 years.

Humphrey I agree with Panda, I don't think you can do anything else tbh. 5m is still pretty little and if you have allergies and reflux in the mix these are bound to have an effect. When you posted originally I assumed your DS was much much older than 5m.