To get wound up about MN and sleep advice

[LittleMilla]

I love MN and will often come on to get advice...can normally count on it for sensible pointers for everything except for sleep.

AIBU to wonder why noone on MN seems to want their children to sleep through the night? I no of noone in RL who co-sleeps - but everyone on MN seems to? And people seem to think it's entorely normal for a 8 month old baby to wake repeatedly through the night.

I just don't get it. So much valuable advice...yet everyone on here seems to go madly soft when it comes to sleep.

Am I the only one?

exhausted I know, I didn't phrase it particularly well!

I guess I agree with the poster who said there are 3 types of babies.

CC is hard, and heartbreaking. I did it. It wasn't easy. My friends who struggle with their babies/toddlers waking in the night freely admit that they just don't have the heart to do it. So to my mind, to some extent, they accept that their child is going to wake?

I think there are some parents (you may be one of these!) who have tried everything and still to no avail. But honestly? I think most people who have sleepless nights, it's because they can't/won't go through sleep training.

You should try a small snack of banana and peanut butter on brown toast by the way about 6pm. Whenever we've missed it, DD has woken up at 3am We are actually due no2, and I'll report back and let you know if it were luck (or if I'm actually just hard, with a view of being cruel to be kind in the long run!!)

I must admit I get quite stressed reading some if the sleep advice on MN. I personally can't function on a few hours sleep and I actually find 10 hours a nighty ideal. I managed with DS when he was little by napping in the daytime when he napped, but he was sleeping through the night for 12 hours by 5 months.

I personally hate co-sleeping, it's uncomfortable for me to get kicked in the back by DS and sleep on the very edge of the bed and DH is a light sleeper and also can't bear co-sleeping.

I think I did controlled crying by accident a few times as it was so obvious DS was tired it was better to make him sleep and be persistent about it than to let him get even more tired.

I don't like the way some people compare CC or CIO to child abuse. As long as the child is well looked after physical & emotionally, I think crying before sleep isn't going to hurt them as much as disturbed sleep patterns over a period of years.

I think we sometimes set impossible ideals these days in regards to parenting and we all feel guilty that we're not doing a good enough job.

I think sleeping all night unaided is a developmental stage, not much different from walking and talking. It would be silly to get het up about a baby not walking by 8 months, or to congratulate yourself for excellent parenting if your baby walks at 10 months, because we get that babies walk when they're ready to do so. I think sleeping is similar and that it is perfectly normal for children to take a few years to reach readiness for this.

I had a bit of a paradigm shift when DD, who was bf / rocked / cuddled to sleep until toddlerhood and who had free access to our bed, chose to decamp to her own bed aged 3, shortly after DS was born. She just did it, and ever since then has slept beautifully.

DS has just started choosing his own bed now, aged 5. It's a gradual process and is entirely his choice - he goes in his bed for a few nights, then comes back to mine, I don't express an opinion either way. Very similar actually to how he stopped bf - he decided he didn't need it any more for a couple of days, then came back to it, then stopped entirely (this was aged 4). I think that if there had been a younger sibling, he'd have decamped sooner, like DD.

I suspect there is a spectrum - some children will be ready and willing to sleep all night unaided by an early age (and I think 8 months is very early), and some will need much longer. Of those who need longer, some can be pushed or encouraged via sleep-training techniques, and some cannot. Personality and emotional needs play a part here.

I think MN presents quite a variety of viewpoints on infant sleeping, and this is a GOOD thing. I, for one, would have appreciated someone to tell me that DD at 6 months was still tiny, did not need to be "sleeping through" and that her need for me was normal, healthy and valid and would remain so for years to come. The prevailing dogma of "babies must sleep through by 6 months and if not here's what you must do to make them!!" is unhelpful if unchallenged, and I'm extremely glad I did not go down any sleep-training route. The DCs are fine and secure and happy, they spent zero time sobbing in cots, I had very little sleep deprivation after the newborn days and we all loved sleeping together. It worked for us.

I obviously did everything wrong, according to the lore of MN. Didn't breast feed, put DCs straight into a cot or Moses basket at night, moved them to their own room after 6 weeks or so, weaned them at 4 months. Left them to grizzle at night if need be. Gave them both a dummy. Ensured they had a proper bedtime routine. Swaddled them. Never took them into my own bed. Did not encourage chat or lift them on the odd occasion they properly woke up, unless it was a bad dream, in which case they would be lifted and cuddled and reassured. They both slept through reliably from 3 or 4 months old. Of course, it was just luck, wasn't it?

TulipOHare

I agree with everything you say re sleeping through being developmental.

Megrim you were lucky you didn't have a screaming refluxy baby because your description doesn't sound like you did.

I always get wound up by those who are anti-CC basing their argument on the fact that CC raises cortisol levels.

Well, they're right - it does. But what they're conveniently forgetting to mention is that one of the main causes of high cortisol levels in babies is from the stress of continued sleep deprivation. So over time those babies who have been successfully sleep-trained by CC (and I appreciate it doesn't work for everyone) have much lower cortisol levels than those babies who are knackered from their nights of being awake every 3 hours.

Fine to be against CC, just don't use bad science to back it up!

Yanbu op-I have 2 excellent sleepers but that is because I was extremely strict/anal about routines,naps,dinner times etc. With dc3 I was far more lax due to knackereness and he is still coming into our bed most nights at the age of 3!

Its entirely my own fault as I am just too lazy now to implement a strict regime. All the parents I know-not with standing dcs with medical issues-have children who wake in the night because the parents are too soft too implement any sort of sleep regime.

I agree with Boo

"grizzle" could never be used to describe DS. He has never grizzled. He is either happy or very distressed.

His sleep is terrible. My only comfort is that aged 2.4 he is a very happy, determined but at the same time easy-going chap in the day. Yes he survives on 9 hours a night, but isn't grumpy the next day.

At night however he is very distressed when left/when he wakes alone. And as he is a light sleeper and we live in a noisy place, well, lots of things to wake him up!

And in the last couple of months we've entered nightmare territory...most nights he wakes screaming and trembling all over.

I did the same as Megrim ...

I did the same as Megrim. DS is 4 YEARS now and will occasionally sleep through.

So yes Megrim a lot of it is down to luck.

My kids sleep for 12 hours straight and have done since 6months. I am a rubbish person all round when I don't sleep well. I can't understand people who don't tackle this issue. Its not good for children, couples, family as a whole.

Well everyone's different and I don't really see what the problem is. Some babies just don't sleep through and it's not for want of trying or effort. DD slept through the night from 5 wks and was a generally chilled out easy baby/toddler. She had 2 hour naps each day until she was 2. Ds has just turned 1 is only just sleeping through, still getting up in the night and napping is sporadic. He's also been a really clingy baby. To get some sleep we have co slept.

I can't understand people who don't tackle this issue

Do you really think people with children who don't sleep well sit back and think "ahh they wont sleep lets leave them to it" I am yet to meet anyone who is happy to have night after night of disturbed sleep, or who isn't trying every method they can find to resolve the issue.

My dd was not a good sleeper, so I used sleep training. We now have a bedtime routine and it works well for her. I know mums who post on fb about how little sleep they get like its a badge of honour.

I can't understand people who don't tackle this issue

We've tried it all.....for years......nothing works. We've been strict.....shouted, calm, routined, non routined.....left him to cry.....been in the room but no interaction...you name it, we've done it.

I'm used to not ever getting a whole nights sleep now and in fact when I am in bed I can't sleep because I am waiting for him to call out. Luckily, I have a fab DH and we take it in turns.

What I dislike is parents of sleepers congratulating themselves for all their 'hard work'.

What is hard work is reading every sleep book under the sun, try every gentle sleep training method going. Getting no results. Surviving the day on 5 hours broken sleep, just like every sodding day for the past 14 months.

In RL I know plenty of parents of non sleepers, thank god, otherwise posts like this would make me cry.

We've tried it all.....for years......nothing works. We've been strict.....shouted, calm, routined, non routined.....left him to cry.....been in the room but no interaction...you name it, we've done it.

So no actual system then, BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack?

Both of my DCs slept right through from six weeks and have continued happily ever since. I just do not understand what parents are doing wrong.

Yes but as he is 11 we have had time to do lots............

and bully for you!

I just do not understand what parents are doing wrong.

What makes you think they are doing something wrong? What a horrible way of looking at it

I trained like a dog both my kids to sleep through from 6-10 weeks. I do not know anyone who co- sleeps nor do I know many babies who are not sleeping through the night by 8 months.

My 2 year old son is a crap sleeper, on average we get up with him 3 times a night. We are doing well if its a quick "It's nighttime" and tuck him back in.
We've worked really hard with bed time routine, room temperature, nightlight, groclock, naughty corner and star chart buy we still struggle far more than most of my friends.
I find it helpful to know from mums net that we are not alone.

I do not understand how some people think all children are the same and will respond in the same way.