AIBU to think schools should not threaten parents with not allowing vehicular access to the school and with clamping if this doesn't work?

[TattyDevine]

They have some double yellow lines for the school bus. I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't park on them, as the school bus does need to park somewhere. But people do occasionally. There is no signage saying don't park there. The school do not yet own the land (its a Public Private Partnership type arrangement).

They have threatened parents who park on them that they will have a note left on their windscreen and a 2nd offence means they will not be allowed to drive into the school. Who on earth would enforce this? Would the police even be interested?

In addition to this, the headteacher ended the note by saying "if this more draconian approach does not work, we may take up the offer from a parent to introduce clamping". I thought since October 2012 clamping on private property was considered unlawful?

Or am I wrong about that?

The head teacher also asks parents not to park on the grass verge opposite the school (which is the highways agency responsibility and nothing to do with the school and not private property) because it leads to complaints from the parish council and local residents. But they don't own this land, and it is not illegal to park there.

I find it slightly worrying that a head teacher would threaten parents with something unlawful, regardless of their bad behaviour, without checking the legal position first. What are your views on this? Do double yellow lines on private property even have any legal weight? (I'm pretty sure they don't without signage).

Just for the record, I never park on the double yellows, because its obvious the bus needs to park there, but I am still left dumbfounded by the bizarre rant.

AIBU?

I too would have concerns about the HT, OP.

In fact, I'd be tempted to send an anonymous letter asking her to check the legalities, as she might end up getting herself or others into trouble if she does follow through on the clamping, etc.

She's probably at the end if her tether, but making the situation worse for herself and the school by threatening illegal actions will damage her reputation at the very least.

Unfortunately a lot of mumsnetters seem to love a good parking rant so just want to shout the loudest about that rather than these legitimate concerns. And you (OP) seem to be getting the worst of the (often irrational) rage for no real reason!

Just as a warning, a neighbour recently got a harassment warning from the police for sending another neighbour notices about parking on private land. Even though neighbour 2 was being a nob and parking somewhere he shouldn't it wasn't a police matter, unfortunately the constant notices did come under criminal law.

Obviously this isn't exactly the same, but I think it needs to be stressed that the law and common decency aren't the same thing (some thing a few other posters can't seem to understand) and without proper legal footing it can be easy for the person who is morally 'right' to get themselves into a lot of trouble.

If I was the head and received a letter explaining you support her cause but are worried about the legalities, etc, I might be pleased for the heads up before she gets accused of all sorts. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the DM, or at least the local rag are already digging about with this one as it seems an easy target.

I'm not too sure about worrying what other 'rules' she might not be following though - parking/private land/civil disputes/etc are complicated even for those professionally involved in the fields (I know, I used to be one!) Knowing her own job probably comes a lot more naturally, though a responsible parent would always be concerned for this no matter what. Unless you have other concerns about this I'd just try to put it to the back of my mind Do your kids like the school? Do you have any concerns about their progress? Etc? If not, then try not to worry, she's probably been a teacher a lot longer than an unofficial parking warden

I think if they were suggesting the introduction of hanging you may have a point However, something like clamping I can't get overly excited about - I still see clamping warnings all over the place.

The school is quite within its rights to impose sactions on selfish parents who think they are so important and lead such busy lives they can park wherever they like. I agree that they need a group of sensible parents to discuss the matter.

However they can install an auto rising kerb and trap cars in the carpark

I think that trapping them in is also illegal though. From the BBC article : Ban also applies to towing away and blocking in

Sounds like they would be better off simply banning parents cars from the site (which in any case would only be offered as a courtesy and never a right).

Thank you Volvocowgirl that was a really great post, you seem to have pinpointed my concerns.

I don't have any issues with my children's progress and the school in general, however the head does have a bad reputation amongst parents and a very high staff turnover. She is very unapproachable and has a habit of turning purple. She also has a history of not getting her facts straight about various issues (once a safeguarding issue) and talking down to the concerned parents (not me, but someone from my son's class) before then finding out the actual situation and then dealing with it appropriately. I suppose I wondered if this letter was more of the same.

The parents are being dicks.

There's no doubt about that Vegetarians

"I think that trapping them in is also illegal though. From the BBC article : Ban also applies to towing away and blocking in"

There is a difference between diliberately blocking a car in and "accidently" blocking a car in. Lots of schools lock their gates during the school day for child protection reasons. Schools don't want any random person their site.

An auto rising kerb stops unwanted cars getting parked in the school car park in the first place. Sometimes schools leave the kerb down between 8am and 8.30 or 4pm and 4.30pm because there are so many teachers arriving for work. If Mrs Bloggs is stupid enough to park her car between those times then she runs the risks of the school trapping her car "unintentionally".

The school is only breaking the law if they refuse to release Mrs Blogg's car. Imagine the senario, "Oh! dear Mrs Bloggs, I see you accidently parked your car in the wrong place. Pam knows the keycode, but she is in a meeting, if you kindly take a seat we will get someone to release your car shortly"

Two hours later the school secretary Pam returns from her meeting and releases Mrs Bloggs. There are lots of fake apologies for keeping Mrs Bloggs waiting. Mrs Bloggs recieves a formal warning from her boss when she is late for work.

And before I get accused of being one of the nob parent parkers. As with what happened with OP.

1. my child is still in utero

2. I lived in the only house within two minutes walk of a very large school, the main road was a dual carriage way (BAD planning there),so not only did we have to endure about 20 cars every morning blocking us in our driveway off our private road, we also had about five entitled pricks who used to park IN OUR DRIVEWAY (tiny one bedroom house but huge drive). One of the inconsiderate shiny 4x4 nobs also backed into one of our dogs whilst on said driveway (was fine, but could easily have been so much worse) so I do understand the annoyance/safety concerns and general dickishness of the behaviour.

Fortunately, my xDP's friend had a huge recovery truck that 'broke down' at the entrance to the private road every morning for a week at dropping off time. Being blocked in for a bit every morning soon got the message across. (But I knew nothing about it, and definitely didn't threaten it in writing ).

It must totally suck living close to a big school with small parking...

people parked IN YOUR DRIVEWAY?

wow, they must do brain surgery on a certain percentage when they breed and extract the common sense.

like your methods though...

this is why houses too close to schools are worth less. And on the original point, the school should just say that anyone who doesn't have a disabled child (or isn't disabled themselves) should not bring a vehicle within half a mile.

OP I understand that it is the head's approach that you are concerned with rather than any desire on your part to park on school premises. But I wonder what other methods you might suggest that she could use to address this issue given that some of the parents are so brass-necked as to still keeping parking on the double yellows when she is there yelling at them not too?

I do sympathise with the woman a bit.

Does the school have a gate? Couldn't she take measure to ensure only authorized people drive in to the school?

Judging from DDs primary, no amount of letters home and pleas to parents would stop the same selfish so-and-sos parking in the bus turning circle and blocking the road generally.

Double yellows mean don't Park - doesn't matter if it's 10 minutes or 10 seconds, I don't understand why some parents think rules only apply to other people

Walking ds to primary this morning one f*ckwit in a silver BMW was parked on the pavement and chevrons right outside the Gate. Another was parked in front and yet another across a drive the other side of the road. This is EXACTLY where everyone who walks crosses the road and they had reduced visibility of moving traffic to zero. I can't even begin to tell you in my morning grumpy state how much ill will I wished On them

If mr/Mrs silver BMW is reading -you are a selfish twat with the IQ of a frozen pea -I seriously hope your lack of consideration doesn't get someone killed (feel better for that)

The thing with our school is we are really lucky - many of the parents don't realise just how lucky they are - that we have a car park. The car park was built in order to make things easier and safer for everyone. Whilst its quite a small school, there are obviously still a few too many cars than there are parking spaces, but in addition to that, we have a Village Hall car park which everyone can use that is literally a 2 minute walk if that and still people want to park on the double yellows. I can see why she loses her rag and turns purple, I really can.

At this point everyone is authorised to drive into the school grounds and to de-authorise some people would be more difficult even then getting them to not park on the double yellows, god knows how she would police that.

Its weird because the school community is so nice, everyone seems so friendly and reasonable its amazing that some people can behave like that and still seem so nice.

Anyway, I'm sure it will work out, as people get used to the yellow lines and reminders and stuff I guess it will peter out and it will just become an occasional minor annoyance to her. Okay so if it were me I wouldn't threaten clamping but that was her way of going about things, its her style of doing things, and I kind of felt sorry for her this morning when she was greeting the children and still had to witness double yellow dwellers despite the ranty letter. I wonder if she'll still have hair/a pulse/adrenal glands intact by the end of the week!

There is none! True about unloading, perhaps she shouldn't have lost her shit this morning after all...

Presumably there are other rules stating which parts of the school children and parents can access at different times of day, both on foot and by car? Children have to stay in the classroom, parents aren't allowed to park in the middle of the playground, you have to knock before you enter the head's office, visitors have to report to reception first etc. etc. etc.

Perhaps she could take somebody to court to make a point, maybe under the rules of trespass? On the other hand perhaps she is just trying to prevent an accident without paying a lawyer and doesn't care whether her letter is legal or not. If parents are disobeying such an obvious school rule, maybe she thinks they are too thick to check and is fighting dirty. I'd be watching out for letters threatening flying monkeys next.

Anyway, what she really needs to threaten everybody with is a nice big closed gate across the entrance to the car park.

My children and I were nearly run over by a woman who had parked on double yellow lines (with signs!) right outside the school. She was too impatient to wait for us to finish crossing it seems. It's hell here and I've told the local rag who want to do a piece on it. I've also contacted the council who are going to send enforcement officers to see how bad it is. If nothing gets sorted it'll be the final nail in the coffin for that school and I'll be transferring the kids to another school.

Barrier to the car park. Key fobs for staff. Intercom for other access. Loads of schools have this now. A school I've been working with has just given in and spent the money to do this because parents persistently ignored requests about driving into school, and some were abusive with the caretaker when she tried to stop them. Shame really as a few inconsiderate parents meant that the money was spent on a car park barrier instead of learning resources.
People driving about and parking where they shouldn't at school drop-off and pick-up times are a danger to the pupils.

Parents at our school are made well aware that they are not to drive into the teachers' car park but they still choose to ignore it.

At dps school, parents block the disabled space that's in frequent use by a very young wheelchair user. When school staff ask them to move, they get told to fuck off.

Where did it all go so wrong?

I would so love for one of these "just a minute" parents to be brave enough to come and justify why they park as they do. They cannot all be dim enough or self absorbed enough to realise it isn't them?

Mind you, "I don't care" wouldn't be much justification would it.