AIBU to think schools should not threaten parents with not allowing vehicular access to the school and with clamping if this doesn't work?

[TattyDevine]

They have some double yellow lines for the school bus. I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't park on them, as the school bus does need to park somewhere. But people do occasionally. There is no signage saying don't park there. The school do not yet own the land (its a Public Private Partnership type arrangement).

They have threatened parents who park on them that they will have a note left on their windscreen and a 2nd offence means they will not be allowed to drive into the school. Who on earth would enforce this? Would the police even be interested?

In addition to this, the headteacher ended the note by saying "if this more draconian approach does not work, we may take up the offer from a parent to introduce clamping". I thought since October 2012 clamping on private property was considered unlawful?

Or am I wrong about that?

The head teacher also asks parents not to park on the grass verge opposite the school (which is the highways agency responsibility and nothing to do with the school and not private property) because it leads to complaints from the parish council and local residents. But they don't own this land, and it is not illegal to park there.

I find it slightly worrying that a head teacher would threaten parents with something unlawful, regardless of their bad behaviour, without checking the legal position first. What are your views on this? Do double yellow lines on private property even have any legal weight? (I'm pretty sure they don't without signage).

Just for the record, I never park on the double yellows, because its obvious the bus needs to park there, but I am still left dumbfounded by the bizarre rant.

AIBU?

[rhetorician]

I don't get this. There's a double yellow line; even if it doesn't have legal force, the message is surely clear? So don't park on it unless you have permission to do so (not sure about badge holders and double yellows). Children who are unable to walk from car to school should have appropriate badge, the rest can surely walk?

[FryOneFatManic]

I cut and pasted exactly what I found on the website, no deletion of words at all, I just added the emphasis. The word "usually" was not present on what I saw.

[Pendeen]

You are missing the word "usually"
Quite deliberate use of the work in the official guidance

There is no absolute right, this is at the compete discretion of the police or parking enforcement officer

[FryOneFatManic]

And I should add that my dad is a blue badge holder and his guidelines are quite specific that he can indeed park for up to 3 hours on double yellow lines unless causing and obstruction or there are other restrictions.

[FryOneFatManic]

Pendeen You need to read this as two separate things:

Badge holders may also be exempt from limits on parking times imposed on others
and
can park for up to three hours on single and double yellow lines so long as they are not causing an obstruction (except where there is a ban on loading or unloading or other restrictions).

[Pendeen]

Read it again, badge holders may usually park on single or double yellow lines for up to three hours except where there is a ban on loading or unloading and at a few locations where local schemes apply

[bodygoingsouth]

vile entitled bastards.

[OwlCapone]

I've asked that on MN before and I'm sure the answer was no.

[madamginger]

I was asking if they could park on yellow zigzags which are not the same as double yellow lines, I looked at the restrictions on them and it says no stopping between 8am and 5pm.

[OwlCapone]

Read it again. They may be exempt from parking times imposed on other. However, they can park on double yellow lines.

[Pendeen]

The emphasis is on may be exempt - as far as I can find out there is no absolute right to park on double yellows.

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

Sorry owl, that'll teach me not to rtft properly

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

If you have a blue badge you can park on double yellows for up to 3 hours, think it's longer in Scotland iirc as long add you don't obstruct the traffic.

[OwlCapone]

Badge holders may also be exempt from limits on parking times imposed on others and can park for up to three hours on single and double yellow lines so long as they are not causing an obstruction (except where there is a ban on loading or unloading or other restrictions).

[Pendeen]

madamginger

I believe that disabled drivers have no more rights in law than anyone else to park on double yellow lines. Most police officers or wardens however take a reasonable approach if they find a blue badged car on double yellows but in your case it sounds dangerous so report it.

On the question of double yellow lines on school premises, again willing to be corrected on this but I have been told that very few state schools own the land - even if they are academy schools - the land is actually owned by the council so the usual legal remedies applicable to public car parks might apply i.e. more stringent that private land. Might be worth the HT asking their council's lawyers for advice.

[Mojang]

We have a chain and padlock wrapped round the gate to the car park, so it looks locked but actually all staff have to do to get in or out is unwrap the chain. It does fool most people though, who don't attempt to get in because they think it's locked (and they'd have to get out of their cars to check/gain access!)

Not sure about the ambulance access argument TBH. If you call for an ambulance they always ask for a member of staff to go out and wait for it/direct it in anyway. It will always be possible to unlock it quicker than the ambulance can get there.

[Waitingforthephonetoring]

When I was in watching my child's assembly last week I saw a parent open the gates to the staff car park, roar into the car park and double park so she could bring her reception child to school. Then return to her car and reverse at speed along about 30m of car park and reverse turn and exit the car park. The staff car park has a gate to stop anyone entering as it is used for children to walk across between school buildings during the school day. Only staff are allowed to use it and if they move their cars during they have another member of staff "spotting" them. There are signs everywhere saying for the safety of the children the car park is not to be used by visitors. When I mentioned this in the office and suggested the gate was locked to prevent this again they explained that the gate was the only ambulance and fire engine access and as such they didn't want to padlock the gate during the school day. All I can say is thank goodness the children were all in assembly! I plucked up the courage to speak to the mum in the playground this week after school "You seemed in a real hurry on Friday, was everything alright?" - "Yeah, she wouldn't get dressed so we were a bit late for school". May not have been the whole story, but when I pointed out about the gate and safety she just shrugged and said her kid was late and it was a car park!

[Megrim]

SirChenjin - our worst parking offenders are the ones that have indulged by their DHs with large 4x4s with personalized number plates. I also attribute their completely fuckwitted parking to being unable to see anything through the massive sunglasses they insist on wearing at all times. No wonder they feel entitled.

[SirChenjin]

Our primary school has the following -

1. A large turning circle immediately in front of the school where you drop your DCs and drive off.
   
2. A school bus which serves the whole local area
   
3. A free onsite breakfast club from 8am
   
4. Wraparound care for primary children up to P3
   
5. A large, free public car park about 5 minutes walk away
   
6. Plenty of onstreet parking around the vicinity, again no more than 5 minutes walk away.
   

Even with all that, there are still parents who insist on either parking in the turning circle, parking in the area reserved for the school bus, or parking in the teachers car park - and then arguing the bloody toss with staff who challenge them.

I often wonder - at what point in their lives did they start to think that sort of attitude and behaviour was acceptable, and why did no-one give them a kick up the backside??

[MinesAPintOfTea]

If its school property that you're parking on then he is entirely within his rights to put a locked gate and not let anyone park there.

Double yellow lines without a TRO may not be legally enforceable with fines, but they show what the land owner considers to be an unreasonable place to park. If the cars accessing the land continue to park there then they can follow this up by banning car access for the group containing the offenders perfectly legally.

OP I suggest you start campaigning for people to park reasonably.

[Megrim]

Our primary school kids even made a DVD asking parents not to park like twats around the school perimeter road. The only parent that took any notice was the one that parked her car on the pavement next to the crossing point - she changed her car pronto and now parks like a twat blocking the entrance to the staff car park instead. I have seen our lollipop lady nearly get skittled several times by impatient idiots who can't wait for 30 seconds.

I did suggest to the HT those really sticky stickers that are buggers to remove that could be stuck on offenders' windows, but the police had already advised that they could be construed as criminal damage. Doesn't stop the big leisure centre in the next county using them though.

Funnily enough, there isn't a parking problem at the secondary school, which is about 100m away - could that be something to do with the fact that a police station is located within the school?

[SirChenjin]

Good for the HT, I say.

Rather than getting all hot and bothered about the legal ins and outs of the HT's threatened actions, why don't you direct your energies at the inconsiderate twunts who park where they shouldn't?

[oscar126]

I agree with Dame Diazepam re rather odd attituide, OP. OK, you say that the grass verge is not owned by the school ("nothing to do with the school") and that parking there is not illegal. From what you say, hwoever, the cars which park on the verge do so only because the school is there. Do you disregard the complaints which the school has had? Rather than trying to be a good neighbour/member of the wider community, should the school respond to complaints from the parish council and residents with "it's nothing to do with us"?

[Peekingduck]

The only way to deal with this is to physically prevent people having free access to drive into school grounds. Children have died as a result of inconsiderate parking (a school in Kent for example, some years back outside the school. Vision to cross the road obstructed by parents parked on double yellow and zig zag lines.)
Good fundraiser for a supportive PTA maybe? Raise funds for an electronic barrier? Can be done with key fobs for about £1700 I think. Worth it to keep the pupils safe and allow proper access for any with disabilities or particular needs.

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

Everyone knows you don't park on yellow or zig zag lines outside a school so signage is neither here nor there.

We had the same at ds's school the head informed the traffic wardens and they came up every day for a week and ticketed offenders, funnily enough they've stopped now but she'd made it very clear she'll call then again if they start doing it again.

We've also had requests not to park inconsiderately so as not to annoy people living near the school.

I find your post odd OP, you should be annoyed at the parents, not trying to catch the Head out on technicalities when she's clearly trying to make it safe for every one