To expect reasonable table manners from DSD 7

[LabRat72]

My stepdaughter comes to us every other weekend. She's generally a very good girl, bit loud but that's to be expected. AIBU to ask and expect that she has decent table manners? Every mealtime I have to remind her to use her knife & fork (she'd eat with her fingers if I let her, obv things that are meant to be eaten with fingers are allowed!), I also ask her to not start eating till everyone is sat down & not to eat with her mouth open or talk (too much) with her mouth full. I also have to ask her to not just jump down from the table as soon as she's finished & to stay seated till dinner has 'gone down' a bit. DH says I'm expecting too much. He's happy for her to eat mainly with her fingers & to wander about during & straight after the meal. Am I expecting too much?

to just expect yabu and essentially expecting someone else to do the hard work of teaching.

to help teach and want those standards, yep that's fine.

YANBU.

All three of in aged 4, 6 and 8 have the table manners you describe and have done so since can be reasonably expected 3.5 onwards.

When younger, they sometimes struggled with a knife and fork, but this just take practice from them and patience from the adults.

Bad-mannered children, especially at the table, make me very cross! Especially when they are old enough to know better.

And as it's your house OP, you don't have to mind your own business and leave it up to her father. Using that logic, the OP wouldn't cook for the girl either and leave that up to her father, but that would be very childish and unnecessary no?

p.s. I think it's fairly universal to have to remind kids to eat with their mouths closed. I don't actually think that this is a big deal because all children seem to eat so you can their food in it's various stages of breakdown , but gentle reminding rather than nagging is required here.

OP, what kind of food exactly does she eat with her hands? I am struggling trying to imagine eating mash or steak pie for example with your fingers.

Bamboo. She won't eat 'wet' stuff like that anyway. She's not a fan of anything sloppy, but she'll happily sit & pick carrots & peas up off a gravy covered roast dinner, or ketchup covered fish finger bits.
Obviously if we have something like fajitas (her favorite meal) then she uses her hands for that.
I do really believe that although she's not 'mine', I should have some say over her behavior in my house, I don't constantly go on at her & there are a few things that I don't agree with (non food related) but I keep quiet, DH has been a parent for 7 years, I have no kids of my own so yes, he probably knows better, but on this issue, I do feel quite strongly.
I will speak to DH before I say anything again to DSD, I know he wants her to have manners, he just needs to decide how we're both going to act around mealtimes with DSD.

Balls, goodness, that stepmum sounds lovely! I can definitely say I'm not like that!
DSD is a lovely girl & I just want her to continue to be lovely, and I think table manners are a part of that, I'd hate her to be one of those adults (we all know at least one) who eat like a pig & embarrass anyone they're with.
She's not daft & she's very eager to please, when I've asked her to use her knife or something in the past she says 'oh yes, I forgot', so she does know, she just forgets. So reminding her is surely the way to go? She doesn't get upset at being reminded.

YANBU, at 7 years old most children are fully capable of eating properly with guidance.

Waiting until everyone is sat down to eat is quite difficult for that age group, this will improve on it's own as she gets older and develops a little more self control. Similarly sitting and waiting whilst you all finish is just as hard. In my nanny jobs the rule is that kids may leave the table if they ask to get down, or if there is dessert, they are allowed to get down and start preparing dessert for everyone. They will play up if sat waiting.

We also have a bit of fun of mealtimes. If the kids speak with their mouth full I claim I can't hear them through all the food, and am happy to listen once it goes down. Or I'll just say "washing machine!" If I catch them eating with their mouth open. I normally have a little treat for them if they get through a meal with fewer than three reminders.

That said, as other have posted, pick your battles. Sometimes you just need to let things go or find another approach. I sympathise as bad table manners drive me nuts!

If you have high expectations then I find children will rise to them, if you suggest they can't do it and lower your expectations then they lower theirs. A 7 year old should easily be able to cut their own food with a knife and fork...I used to work with 3 year olds and they all could do this. They all waited to leave the table, they served themselves with vegetables and water and waited until everyone got their food before starting.

Totally agree with everything you are doing OP. Stands her in good stead for other people's houses where she will be expected to shown consideration for others etc.

I don't think that your expectations are unreasonable. I think trying to address all three issues at once is too much, so if I were you , I would prioritiise and deal with things one at a time. That way, she won't feel bombarded with criticism at meal times.
So start off for a few weeks by you and she both sitting at the table whilst DH serves your meals togethet. She sees you waiting for him to sit down so you're leading by example.

With the knife and fork, mine still struggled at that age. I find giving them smaller dessert forks etc helps.

I think some people can be quite harsh about meal times. I am quite laid back.

My 9 year old will eat with her hands, i always have to remind her to use her knife and fork.

She takes forever to eat so in our house we dont wait until everyone is finished before anyone can leave the table. I would never get the dishes washed if i sat and waited for her to finish.

Meal times are not important in our house, it is just something that we have to do.

Op I agree with the posters saying to pick your battles because if the manners you want to see aren't being reinforced at home, you have a tough job on your hands

I'm a bit like you with manners, in that people notice when you DON'T have any, rather than when you do - especially as an adult. My dc's know what's expected, it doesn't always happen, but I know they have been taught. And this is the crux of it - some children won't ever have been told what good table manners are, they simply don't know

I know that when my dc are visitors they are exceptionally polite, it's always commented upon. It's not how they act at home, but they have been taught

I used to play a game with mine calked 'if you wre my boyfriend I'd dump you for that' where they'd pretend to be taking me out on a first date, and I'd shout 'dumped' every time they did something like putting the food they don't like on my plate. It was fun, it made us all laugh, and they remembered the things I shouted 'dumped' at. Just an idea if you wanted to try something different

I have taken a slightly different tack with my eight year old who has much worse manners than her sister (clumsier, more prone to forgetting). I had a chat with her about manners, told her that some people care about them a lot, and even though there's nothing intrinsically wrong with say putting your elbows on the table or eating with your knife and fork in the wrong hands, that people will see them as a 'sign' of impoliteness. So, if they want to go and eat at other people's houses, or impress guests (or boyfriends!) or just keep the table nice at home, they know the rules. Some mealtimes we practice the rules, sometimes we are less fussed about it.

Barking 'elbows' is boring and doesn't stick with lots of children. Being honest with them about the manners game (which is it is a game, in some cultures like my husband's culture, they all start eating at different times and finish in a very haphazard way, but that's because their meals last for 2/3 hours) seems to work better because they understand why this is important knowledge and why it might offend others.

If I had to go with two basic rules above all others (to cut down on relentless pointing out and them then forgetting all of them) I'd go with- mouth closed when eating and eating with a knife and fork (not fingers unless fingers food). All the rest is decoration to me.

Those would be my rules too TallestTower. Eating with ones mouth open and with fingers for non-finger food is just dirty and uncouth, vile. There's a friend of ds1's that I will never have over to eat in this house again for those two reasons, he is a greedy, rude, ill mannered child when it comes to meal times and it seems like it is his parent's one blind spot as he is otherwise a lovely pleasant little boy. Gentle reminders about acceptable table behaviour is just good basic parenting surely?

I do think your rules are a bit over the top. Basic table manners fair enough. Not eating with fingers for a start. But lots of rules about when you can start eating and how long you have to sit at the table when you've finished. No. Or every meal turns into an ordeal for everybody.

If your DH 'inhales' his food then maybe you could ask him to slow down a little bit to keep pace/company with you?

Eating with knife and fork (when appropriate) is fine as a teaching, I'd focus on that and let your husband pick up the slack in training his daughter.

OP i think you should pick your battles. You are going to have other issues in the years to come. This does not affect your life, does it? Better to argue when an issue that affects your life arises.
Also, i would think that she feels comfortsble in your house to be herself. Which is good imo.
Btw i like eating chips by hand.

I expect mine to wait till everyone is seated before we start, eat with cutlery, wait till everyone has finished till asking to get down. Just basic manners really.

Can you do some kind of reward chart. List he three things and let her have a point or a chocolate button for each one if she manages

It's a tough call OP, but I would say intervene, and carry on with encouraging good table manners. i chose not to with DSS, thinking it wasn't really my place if DH didn't want to... DSS is now 16, and has such apalling table manners that I have changed places at the dining table so I don't sit opposite him and if we go out I always sit next to him rather than opposite him so I can't see him eat.
Delightfully lovely young man he is, enjoy his company, we have good chats, he's great with dd- but eating with him? No thanks. Wish I'd done what you're doing :(

Just keep on reminding her, we have to with our 8 year old and while not being overly super strict, I do think table manners important. My OH used to have appalling manners and even he is better now.

I always think when you have been bought up with table manners you can choose when its appropriate not to use them, if you have never had it instilled in you you dont know any better OH

Can I delete my post and say...what TallestTower posted

christ I still have to mash up and feed my nearly 7 yr old... I would love him to just sit and eat his food. I certainly wouldn't give a toss about waiting to sit down and waiting till everybody else is finished.

OP if a 7 yr old and your dude is finished eating before you.. maybe you should speed up a bit.. there's nothing more boring than watching somebody else eat when you're finished.

I should have put in there... get off her back. If she lived with you then fair dos.. but you're going to go down in her head for playback as an adult as that stepmother who was anal about how she ate.

I expect all that from my 3 year old (with reminders) and am surprised anyone would think eating with cutlery, mouth closed, and waiting a few seconds for everyone to sit down before starting is anything other than normal, standard dinner time behaviour.