to believe, and be heartbroken by Woody Allens step-daughters testimony

[fromparistoberlin]

kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/

I read this last night and it just about broke my heart

I believe her, and I am just so saddened by it

How the hell did he not get prosecuted

brave brave girl, and I feel awful as I have watched and enkoyed his films, even knowing of this murky tale in the background

Not so, because when you say you believe someone, you disbelieve someone else and consider them to be guilty of an horrific crime.

In the absence of anything approaching convincing evidence and contradictory accounts feom both side, the onlt non-callous rhing is to say we don't know.

"If we don't know the facts then surely, morally, for her sake and for all other victims we must say we believe her"

Actually it goes the other way. If you don't know all the facts, then morally and ethically you must presume the accused is innocent.

Only the most perverted and evil ethical systems through the ages have had accusation = guilt as their belief.

What is the available evidence? I thought this was all conjecture, Dylan's and MF's stories of what happened.

My opinion of the man is not based on conjecture, though.

It is based on my thoughts around the fact that he had a relationship with Soon-Yi, and it also based on comments he himself has made in myriad different interviews.

My opinion of the man is that he lacks credibility, and it is based not on what X person or Y person has said about him, but rather entirely on what he has done and said himself.

Yes Japanese there are plenty of reasons to dislike Woody Allen, As someone who enjoys most of his films, I wholly accept that.

He seems to be a neglectful father, self absorbed and left his girlfriend in one of the most shitty way imaginable to shack up with her teenage daughter. All behaviour of a selfish narcissistic and callous human
being.

This does not in any way indicate he is a child abuser though.

Sighs... she wasn't his stepdaughter. He never lived with her or had a paternal relationship with her.

No it is not a fact. It is speculation.

There is a world of difference between starting a sexual relationship with a consenting adult (albeit one that contains an age gap you might well find icky) and forcing sexual attention onto an willing prepubescent child.

Saying 'it is just a fact' doesn't make it so.

Another witch hunt with baseless accusations by bored facebook junkies.

Calling someone a child molester should be against the law if a court hasn't convicted them of a crime.

As composhat stated correctly "Saying 'it is just a fact' doesn't make it so".

Shacking up with a teenage stepdaughter indicates a propensity to child abuse in my eyes.... and that's just fact.

No it isnt just fact at all! That is not even close to fact! At my exDH's school one of the teachers became the boyfriend of one of the students. She was 18 and in the Upper VI, he was 34 and married. He lost his job, despite the fact that they didnt have sex until he had left the school so they both said. This was 23 years ago and the couple are still together with children and seem to be happy (they still live locally).

He is no more a sexual predator than I am!

As someone else said, I believe that she believes it happened, but that doesnt mean it did.

The accusations and statements etc simply dont add up. There is "reasonable doubt" in my mind.

Allen never stayed over at the Farrow home

He was never married to Farrow

He was not the adopted or step father of Soon Yi (her adoptive father is Andre Previn)

He was not involved in her upbringing

Just thought I would mention that as some posters seem to be forgetting those facts.

why not simply accept what the victim said as a child and says now that she was abused
Absolutely ronaldmacdonald
I don't know why not tbh. But it goes a long way to understanding why so much child abuse goes on without the perpetrators being stopped or brought to justice.
People like to think that children make it up because the alternative is so uncomfortable.

And with the teacher thing, no, it doesn't matter that they both kept to the story that they didn't "have sex" until she was over 18.
What is being said is that the "held off" until he wouldn't get into trouble.
Which means that their relationship was sexual, and therefore inappropriate, prior to her being 18.
Abstaining from intercourse until the time is right does not mean that a relationship is not sexual or "romantic"

Yes but BogeyFace, Soon Yi was very young. She was his partner's daughter. That in itself is creepy. Woody Allen is a creep.

Lazy, Compos, Bogeys and other WA defenders, have you taken the time to read the court document I linked to?

It obviously does not offer proof that the abuse took place but it does shed interesting light on the personalities involved.

I know judges aren't infallible but he would have had a lot better sources of information than us, are you happy to just dismiss it? Why?

Yes he is an oddball. Someone already posted his comment about if he was caught in a room full of 12 year olds everyone and his dog would say, yeah, I knew that about him.

He was right! His out of kilterness, his not quite rightness, his eccentricity, his cleverness, all being used as evidence of his guilt.

I think the man is no more normal than a 3 legged baboon singing Take Me Home Kathleen. But that does not make him a paedophile.

To say that it is a moral imperative to believe all accusations of abuse is terrifying. There was enough stupidity and violence arising from ignoramuses attacking paediatricians co they were too stupid to know the difference between 2 big words. To insist on taking an accusation as proof of guilt is ridiculous. Think it through!

Again, because I don't want anyone to mistake what I am saying: I do believe that Dylan believes what she says. However taking all the evidence we internet detectives have at our fingertips, I am not sure that those memories are hers. The poor girl has been treated appallingly in more ways than one.

Mothership... again, not defending WA. I have read the court document, I lived through the whole thing the first time round and have memories of the too ing and fro ing of the legal beagles. Frankly, to British eyes, it was about as reliable as the OJ Simpson court case.

He had known Soon Yi since she was 8. He was in a relationship with her mother. Beyond creepy actually.

Why does everyone dismiss Woodys account? Why does everyone dismiss the official original investigation ruling that no abuse had taken place? Why does everyone ignore Moses account of his mothers brainwashing against Woody and woe betide anyone her dares to cross/disagree with her? I have looked at all documents linked from here and many other sites because I wanted a balance of information. My overwhelming feeling is that Woody did not sexually abuse Dylan but that Dylan genuinely believes he did. That is the absolute crux of the issue, not whether Woody or Mia are ideal parents.

Well of course if it were true then WA would have confessed

I don't know, dinkydoodah!

I had assumed it was because the sisterhood must protect its own, all victim statements must be taken at face value and, not forgetting the biggest, all men are evil

Mothership I am not defending Woody Allen. I don't know the man, I don't know what happened between him, Dylan Farrow, Soon Yi, Previn, Mia Farrow etc.

The only fair thing to say is that 'we don't know.'

To say that it is a moral imperative to believe all accusations of abuse is terrifying.

I agree. I don't think that this was the aim or rationale of the 'I believe you' campaign. Its aims are laudable, sensible and practical, but the name of the campaign, has given succour to the 'no smoke without fire/guilty until proved innocent brigade' who seem to think an accusation is proof enough. Not a million miles from the News of the World vigilante mobs.

Great post Compos

Nomama What internet evidence are you referring to?

So the judge (who had much more reliable evidence than us to hand!) did not think Dylan was coached, did not think MF brainwashed her in revenge for WA's affair with SY.
"There is no credible evidence to support Mr. Allen's contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan."
What is it that makes people discount that? What are you basing that on?

Dinky The Yale New Haven study report is "sanitized and, therefore, less credible"
The judge felt that the first investigators did not conduct the investigation properly, they made assumptions without ever talking to some of the people involved and they destroyed notes and refused to testify directly in court. The judge felt that therefore their evidence was compromised, what makes you think it wasn't?

Judges aren't infallible but what sources are people using to counter that report? Moses? Why is he more credible than his siblings? He's the only one crying 'brainwashing'. Please read page 26 of that report here Moses' desire for a father and WA's cavalier treatment of him makes such sad reading.

MF actually stated to one of the Doctors in the course of the investigation that she hoped Dylan statements were fantasy, the judge questioned how this is consistent with the allegations of brainwashing?

MF reported the alleged abuse took place at a time when she believed WA was not alone with Dylan, why would she do this if she was making it up? It was only subsequent testimony from a babysitter that supported Dylan's version of events.

I'm not saying the woman is a saint, she patently has her own issues, but other than WA's baseless accusations and Moses' changed reports many years later, where is there any credible source that she was so vengeful that she was prepared to rip her family's lives apart with a false accusation of child abuse?