to say this to my sister?

[CailinDana]

My older sister lives with my parents in Ireland while my younger sister and I live in England.
Throughout our childhoods OS bullied me and YS pretty much constantly. My parents ignored it, just as they ignored any emotionally difficult situation.
I basically stopped talking to OS when I was 14 as it was the only way to stop her bullying me and she was driving me mad (literally). She gave up on me but redoubled her energies on YS whom she bullied until YS left home 2 years ago. YS hates OS. I just feel sorry for her at this stage, the environment she my DM and DF have at home now is majorly dysfunctional and toxic. OS texted some weeks ago saying weshould be in contact more and "be friends like we used to be." (last time we were friendly I was about 5). I don't want to engage with her so I just said "of course" to avoid a fight.
She rang yesterday out of the blue. She hasn't rung me in at least 5 years. I ignored the call. Later YS rang me to say OS had rung her (YS had also got a 'let's be friends' text a few weeks ago). Apparently mum is very down and YS needs to call her, the implicit message being that YS and I are shit daughters for not being in more contact. OS is due to ring me again today and no doubt I'll get the same message.
Now, when I was depressed a few years ago I was basically told by mum and OS that I was worrying everyone and I needed to get over it.
So today when OS rings today WIBU to suggest I say the same thing to mum? And to say that if her version of "friendship" is to ring me up once in 5 years to criticise me then she can stuff it up her arse? Or am I just being petty?

Too true solesource.

I cut dsis off. I felt better. I struggled with the contact with dm. I knew she was moving, but also saw that she wasn't telling me details.

I let her play it out they way she wanted to do it, cos I needed to see what she'd do.

The text from sis knocked me a bit, but then I cbt'd myself and reminded myself of how i'd felt that morning, and why I felt different later. The text, from someone who clearly hates me was the only thing that'd affected my day. So I discounted it.

I emailed dm after a few weeks of her pretending nothing had happened, to express my sadness and bewilderment at what she'd chosen to do.

I got rants back. I set her straight with a couple of bullet pointed facts.

From that point on I refused to engage. No calls, no texts, nothing.

Didn't stop her ringing every sodding week for months.

I felt sick all weekend, waiting for the call i'd never answer, the chirpy voicemail i'd not always listen to.

There were a couple of weeks where she'd not call, and I couldfeel myself stronger and better. I just wished she'd stop. But I wasn't going to reward her with contact/reaction from me

After the police incident, she was warned (by them) not to contact me. And she hasn't.

I feel better with every passing wEek.

I can't show any better proof of the poison they seep into our lives than this.

Consider NC lovey. It's not an easy decision, but no-one ever takes that decision lightly.

So you have a therapist? I book sessions when I can afford/when I desperately need to. It helps. A lot.

It's only now I'm remembering that the last time she pulled me back in was 3 and a half years ago when I was pg with ds. Same sort of bullshit - she was "concerned" about mum because she was upset that I'd asked her and dad to stay in a hotel when visiting after ds was born. I was totally suckered then - got upset, fought with her etc. She has a reliable form of attack. And it was going to work again. Sigh.

I've had counselling in the past hissy. But I do need it again. I'm just not quite ready for it.

And I'm not ready to go NC with my mum. For one thing it would mean cutting off my gran and some really lovely aunts and uncles. And really mum herself isn't a problem. Our relationship is friendly and superficial. I think NC would be harder.

I'd get to your DM first then when OS starts to say things, you can say yes she told me when I spoke to her. It'll take the wind out of her sales.

I would prob say to OS something like - look me and ys are nervous to engage due to bullying we sufferered from you. But everyone deserves another chance so if you apologise we'll move on and be friends. However I don't need your friendship so if you bully or criticise again then that will be the end and there will be no third chances.

Requesting an apology will inflame things, it'll kick off tbh.

The os will carry on doing this, especially if she knows it gets to her intended target.

Cailin, you asked Hissy about what her mother did to her children. I have my own story.

When I was 13 or 14 my grandmother (my Dad's mother) sat me down and told me that my mother didn't love me. She was incapable of love. She was an evil woman who turned everyone against each other.

The last part of that was pure projection; this was exactly her MO - separate, divide, create conflict and turmoil. Destroy all relationships.

I know at that age, I was old enough to tell her this wasn't true (and I did, while sobbing at her), but I still remember how much it hurt. And how panicked I was, being a well behaved child, and not really having the confidence to talk back or contradict an adult.

She is an evil, evil woman, and I will never see her again.

My father is a copy of her. All my life, me and my siblings were set against each other. Every childhood disagreement of my children or my nieces or nephews was gloated over as 'sibling rivalry'. He also uses my siblings to try to get to me. He acts the pained, hurt party, and denies the abuse (I was beaten; according to him it was acceptable punishment). I was also heralded as the golden child and excused any behaviour where I attacked my siblings. It has fucked me up no end, and fortunately, when I got out of that situation at 16, I realised that my siblings were massively more important to me than he was.

There's so much history here - I'm not going to bore you with going into it all, but what it boils down to was that he promised me greatness if I was his model child, but then followed this with rejection after rejection - I was never good enough for him, no matter what I did. He kept asking for more.

He will never see my children alone, ever. If we are required to be in the same room (my little brother's wedding for example) they are kept well away from him.

I agree about the apology hissy. As far as she's concerned she's already forbidden me from mentioning the past.

Cailin I really feel for you. I've seen many of your posts over the years (namechanger).

The only thing you can do for your sanity is ignore OS completely.

Engaging or trying to reason with her will only lead to more pain and frustration for you.

Talk to your mother directly only. Be firm and honest with her if any of your sister's shit comes up but I'd say on the whole do what you are doing - have a perfectly courteous ,arm's length relationship with your mum.

The only 'mistake' you made was your 'of course' text...don't engage or let her see you have let her in to your head or heart. Don't reply to OS at all. Everytime you feel you should, remind yourself that it will end in your tears. Change her name in your phone to NO POINT or TEARS&PAIN.

One of the reasons I get sucked in is because I feel sorry for her. We all had a rubbish childhood but YS and I got through it pretty well. OS definitely didn't. She has a group of female friends she's had since school who basically bully and control each other. Originally the group decision was that long term relationships and marriage were pointless - one of the group precipitated OS's breakup from the only man she ever had a good relationship with. That rule was suddenly changed when alphabitch wanted to get married a couple of years ago and now four of them are married while OS is still single. Currently there is a "no children" rule - because "we" think it's too much hard work and "we" don't want to lose our figure and our boobs - but no doubt that'll change too and then OS will be totally left behind. Her relationship with those girls is seriously weird. They don't appear to like each other much and from time to time have singled out members of the group for serious full on bullying but they've been "friends" for 15 years.
So now OS is at home with two rubbish parents, one of whom she barely tolerates, with friends who couldn't care less about her and a stressful job she doesn't really like. I w

Thanks for telling your story Fog. Do you get along with your siblings now?

I feel as if I've survived a horrible abusive toxic childhood. Gaining strength by no contact with certain family members, it took years, but is worth it now. It's painful and has caused many tears. But I now know alot of the pain was due to me holding on to a hope that nasty spiteful people would change. They didn't. Can't and won't.
If these people were not your family I'd expect you to gave told them to fuck off years ago. Don't allow them to hurt you anymore. Your dm sounds like she is bullied by father and sister and doesn't want to make her life even worse by siding with them. It's awful because she is in the middle it seems. Hugs probably not helped but wanted to offer support anyway.

I have a toxic aunt who occasionally gets in touch saying we should let bygones be bygones. But she never acknowledges her past behaviour, and until she does, me and my father will not engage. Letting bygones be bygones suits the bully very nicely, I'm sure.

Oh definitely Bluestones, OS wants to "put aside anything that's happened in the past and start new." In other words "I decree that we will be friends and that you will not mention how I bullied you for years."

Thanks for the hugs forever. My mum is stuck in all this but that's her choice. She acts like a passive victim, which infuriates me.

They get a 'feed' from this, don't forget.

If they didn't want to do this, they wouldn't.

Your description of your dsis life is very telling.

The bit about singling out some poor bugger for bullying every so often in particular.

This is what she's doing with you. You've come round on her rota!

Refuse to engage, let her play her games alone, and tell YS what you're doing so that if she wants to do the same she'll have your support if nothing else.

You're lucky to have YS in this. Making these decisions alone is excruciating.

cailin, your os is in a right state, isn't she? Terrible friends, toxic way of life. You'd be so wise not have anything more to do with her at all. No contact, no response, nothing.

Funny the total lack of self-awareness they have, CailinDana! My aunt thinks (or tells others) that my and my dad are a real pair of meanies for not wanting to be friends. Of course, she never tells them WHY.

Once I did raise her past behaviour, and got "Oh, I can't believe you're still harping on about that (eyeroll, silly Bluestones ...)!"

I'd be told how nasty and petty I was that I couldn't "let things go." How funny that her feelings are so important while mine don't count at all.

Cailin- when I've challenged family members about their behaviour and expected them to change, it's just been super painful. When I've managed to detach enough so that it's a case of speaking up simply to get something off my chest (w no expectations they'd change), it's been good to speak up and has been a powerful thing to do to show others (and myself) that I have boundaries and limits. And that I'm not being unreasonable that as a 38 yr old that my DH and DC should come before my parents and siblings (my family dynamic is that everything should revolve around my family of origin and esp my folks).

I sort of kid myself that I am detached but when things like this happen I realise I'm not. Your approach appeals to me chilled - saying your piece but expecting nothing in return. Saying nothing is hard for me. Not caring what they think of me is a real hurdle though.

I have a really naive hope that one day they'll grow up. Letting go of that is so hard.

I so relate Cailin. It's taken a long time, a lot of physical distance and counselling and a wonderful DH who will point out their insanity to get me to this point, so be kind to yourself.

And I still sometimes find myself thinking they'll be different this time, that I'll get the love and support I need. At the moment, I'm usually able to identify that desire/expectation before it overwhelms me and so I can remind myself that it's not unreasonable to want it (even though it's not going to happen).

But if I'm really low or ill, I find that so much harder.

Oops, sorry Cailin, I went out and didn't notice your post.

My and my siblings get on more or less OK. My sister and I are very close, and quite protective of each other, which is odd, because she came under my fire more than my brothers did (we shared a room, we're closest in age, so basically, there was more scope for tension. As she got older, I disapproved of her because Dad did.) But yes, we became close more or less as soon as my parents marriage broke down. Well, it took a while, but we did get close and we still are close.

My brothers and I were more close then, and less close now. Still OK, but it's more facebook sort of relationship, than calling up for long chats. Sis and I get together as often as I we can though, but both have quite busy lives.

They don't blame me. One of my brother remains baffled as to why I won't be the obedient daughter and rush to my Gran and Dad, but he is baffled in a distant way. He doesn't push me.

Sis and I had very different relationships with Dad, and hers has recovered better than mine. She's always seen him for a fool, even when she was a child (which caused some of the issues), so now she still sees him for a fool, and treats him accordingly - she doesn't rely on him for anything, and doesn't share personal stuff and so forth. It sounds like the relationship you have with your mum is similar - fine as long as you stay on the surface.

I saw him as a hero and god, and his rejection utterly cut me down, and I can't get up from that at the moment. Maybe one day I will; I'm in therapy, it's going well.