to say this to my sister?

[CailinDana]

My older sister lives with my parents in Ireland while my younger sister and I live in England.
Throughout our childhoods OS bullied me and YS pretty much constantly. My parents ignored it, just as they ignored any emotionally difficult situation.
I basically stopped talking to OS when I was 14 as it was the only way to stop her bullying me and she was driving me mad (literally). She gave up on me but redoubled her energies on YS whom she bullied until YS left home 2 years ago. YS hates OS. I just feel sorry for her at this stage, the environment she my DM and DF have at home now is majorly dysfunctional and toxic. OS texted some weeks ago saying weshould be in contact more and "be friends like we used to be." (last time we were friendly I was about 5). I don't want to engage with her so I just said "of course" to avoid a fight.
She rang yesterday out of the blue. She hasn't rung me in at least 5 years. I ignored the call. Later YS rang me to say OS had rung her (YS had also got a 'let's be friends' text a few weeks ago). Apparently mum is very down and YS needs to call her, the implicit message being that YS and I are shit daughters for not being in more contact. OS is due to ring me again today and no doubt I'll get the same message.
Now, when I was depressed a few years ago I was basically told by mum and OS that I was worrying everyone and I needed to get over it.
So today when OS rings today WIBU to suggest I say the same thing to mum? And to say that if her version of "friendship" is to ring me up once in 5 years to criticise me then she can stuff it up her arse? Or am I just being petty?

OS has basically got away with anything. Mum used to live in a fairyland and pretend her three girls adore her until year before last when she tried to invite OS to my birthday outing at which point I just told her straight that I do not like OS and certainly don't want to spend my birthday with her. At which my mum pretended to be surprised. That's how anything negative is dealt with - ignore it and feign surprise/annoyance when someone points it out then go back to ignoring it.

sigh of recognition here

no real advice from me but a bucket of sympathy

OS positioned herself neatly as #1 DD and I would be wary of engaging with her.

And who is she bullying now? Them! That's why your mother is unhappy.
I hadn't even progressed to thinking that but yes SanityClause that makes sense.

Sympathy CailinDana. I think it's not insignificant you mention you're Irish (me too). Ireland has changed so vastly since the 70s and 80s that I think a lot of the people parenting around that time were basically raised by people with the attitudes of victorians (thinking of my grandmother here), brutally punished at school, had no chance of a divorce ever etc, so I do wonder if the crap-parenting/emotional stunting/'lalala nothing bad is happening ignore ignore' you described is related. Which doesn't negate any of your feelings by the way, just I find it helpful sometimes to feel out difficult people's past landscape iykwim.

You're not at all U to stay the hell away from OS, but - if you want to, of course - you could still contact your mum. Sounds like her chickens have well and truly come home to roost. Does she do email, own mobile etc? Or would OS be capable of hacking into these to get a hold on you? Is OS likely to live with your parents indefinitely?

hug anyway. OS sounds a horrible person.

Hi Cailin

I relate far too much. I'm Irish too and like pandarific I suspect the culture of not talking about stuff is v powerful. For me, I have to decide what I am prepared to give before I engage w some of my siblings and rigidly stick to that (even when it goes against what is expected of me, which is so painful even when I know intellectually that I'm not being unreasonable).

If it were me, I wouldn't bother trying to have it out w OS- keep it all v superficial and non committal and do what us right for YOUR family.

Good luck

I love the idea of stealing the older sisters thunder and calling your Mum.

Don't ever believe your sister will change and be a kind, loving relative.

You have to avoid her. You've done really well so far.

Wrt your mum, when do you see her with your dcs? Couldn't you talk to her then?

Or just carry on as before? Seeing your mother occasionally, saying nothing of any import, ignoring your vile older sister.

Thing is though pig there's no thunder to steal - YS was under strict instructions not to tell mum that OS had told her to get in contact. That's another feature of our family - "don't tell..." It's all secrets and hiding.

You're right panda that this sort of parenting is pretty common in Ireland.

It annoys me that I'm painted as the cold detached one who doesn't care. Thankfully YS and I have a great relationship.

I think you have the best plan, TBH, Cailin. Keep in touch with your DM, and don't let OS dictate your relationship with her.

I know what you mean by being painted as the bad guy. You don't get to do any PR because you are keeping out of the situation as best you can. But, keeping away is really the best thing for you and YS.

And I'm pleased you do have YS.

Cailindana, you are not a bold girl ! you have to look after yourself first and foremost. Don't actively try to upset them it went actually help you at all , but shut down any attempt to engage you in guilt immediately. Oh we do love passing around the catholic guilt

you are protecting yourself by keeping apart from these people who cause you pain.

do not feel obliged to be in contact with them.

that's way easier to write for you, than it is to put into practice in my own life. my mother... well, she's a book in her own right.

The really annoying thing is if I do ring DM and ask her if she's ok I'll just get "yeah I'm fine" said in a sulky voice. There's just no point in trying to talk to her about anything beyond superficial day to day stuff. She whinges that we don't tell her anything but the reason for that is that if we do tell her anything we're told to get over it. When I told her I'd been sexually abused as a child her response was not to let it upset me, don't tell dad and I was trying to make her feel guilty ffs.

(((hug)))

Your idea to reply that DM will call if she needs/wants to is exactly what I was going to suggest.

You have your manipulative OS's word only for all of this, and your experience with the rest of them when you were fighting depression yourself. Dig deep, detach and carry on.

Your dm and os don't deserve your attention

Cailindana "That's another feature of our family - "don't tell..." It's all secrets and hiding." Oh my god, yes. I know that so very well. WTF is the point in all that?!

I'm seen as a bit of an ice-maiden by my family too. It's self protection, and seeing as the things I have to protect myself against are so minor as to be laughable (parents are loving just smothery, have no respect for my boundaries) compared with yours I think you're completely within your rights to withdraw and build a bloody moat. Try not to waste your energy being angry at how they view you - OS will probably be campaigning against you, but screw her.

On your relationship with your mum: she sounds quite PA and martyry. The way she dealt with the sexual abuse was just shit. How is that in any way helpful?? IMO there is sometimes a 'good daughter' role hanging in the air that you can feel you're suppose to just pick up and don, never mind that it's also a martyr cloak. Don't feel bad if you decide you don't want to talk much to her. Imagine how you'd respond to your own daughter in that situation - it beggars belief.

Cailin, when my dm moved away (keeping the location to herself) I received a text from dsis (I was nc more than 1yr) telling me to call dm as she was distraught about the move.

Yeah, the one I knew very little about.

I was also told not to tell DM she'd told me to call.

It's a script.

Fuck em.

Did THEY call us when we were in need? No. My sister deliberately ignored me AND (years later) took huge great smug satisfaction it telling me she had done so. At the very lowest point of my entire life. That's the pure reason i'm nc with her.

Not the ignoring my calls, not that's fine. It's the making sure I knew she'd deliberately left me hanging.

My dm and everyone else in that fetid family though I WBVU. Normal people however think i'm dead right to have cut her off.

I'm nc with the lot of them. They are not positive people to have in my life.

Beware the 'great GM' figure, mine did shitty teeny little things to ds too. Our dc are collateral damage for them, don't allow too much contact, it won't be positive.

Hissy can I ask what your mother did to your dcs?

OP, Just be really honest, tell your older sister you cannot for the sake of your health engage in friendship,

and that if she wanted to have a relationship with either of you again, she would have to do a course of cognitive behaviour therapy, and if you felt that it had had a significant impact, you will give careful consideration to idea of building a new relationship.

Explain that is a generous offer give the difficult circumstances, and wish her the best of luck.

Invite your parents to stay.

I don't mind having my mum to stay but my dad isn't welcome, mainly because he has no interest in me or the dcs. I invited everyone (including him) over for Christmas but was turned down, no doubt because he can't be bothered getting off his lazy arse. My mother has made her choice on that front. She can visit when she likes but if she's going to let dad get in her way then I can't do anything about that.

She lied about things to make herself look better. Odd things that actually if he'd have gone along with, he'd have gained out of it. He insisted he didn't do what she'd claimed he'd done, thereby missing out on a reward. I've never understood that one.

She bought him clothes that were clearly too small and refused his three requests over 3 hours to let him change out of them as he was uncomfortable and in pain. 'it'll upset me if you change" was what ds told me she said. :(

The pièce de résistance was turning up at my home unscheduled and when her H started getting bolshy, terrorising me and ds so much he was yellow with fear, just added to the melee by shouting more and calling me names. Even when I called the police they refused to leave. The police had to convince them to go.

Please resign from the role they have allocated you. Scapegoat sucks. If you don't play her games (and ys too) then she can't be goldengirl. That's what she wants, at your expense.

The typical goldenchild, scapegoat setup doesn't really apply to us. I think only a boy could be a goldenchild in our family because my dad would be interested in him and my mum would be so grateful for that he would be adored. As it stands OS and my dad don't get on at all, they barely talk to each other. My mother pussyfoots around her to avoid upsetting her. One thing she did do was play down mine and YS's achievements as OS wasn't as able as we were. But she makes no secret of the fact that OS pisses her off at times.
She is very respectful of me for fear that I'll stop her seeing the kids. That seems to be the only thing that motivates her.

Triangulation. She puts OS down to hoover others in. When you're hooked, you're slapped down again.

It's the manipulative dynamic 101. Heaven forbid any of you would find happiness and freedom in your lives.

No phonecall from OS. I certainly won't be ringing her. But if she does ring I'll just say the bare minimum and ignore any attempts at guilt tripping.

It's so instinctive to try to defend myself that I get sucked back in so easily. And I guess OS knows that - she knows if she makes out she's some sort of sainted martyr looking after the dps while YS and I do nothing that I'll feel compelled to stand up for myself.

In fact I'm tempted to go down the "Oh OS you're so good to support them, YS and I are so busy having actual lives we really appreciate you looking out for them blah blah blah." Bad idea?

Just don't engage. You're not going to 'win'. You're (luckily) not like them.

You'll never understand their motives. Just focus on being the best, healthiest and happiest you can be.

Good advice Hissy thanks.

99% of the time I'm perfectly fine but one phonecall from her (where I don't even speak to her!) and I'm in a tizz again. God I wish I could get her to fuck off.

YABU your mental and emotional health will suffer. On your head be it. You seem like you learn the hard way as I do.

IGNORE