To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

Not read thread but great post op.
My sister was a little plum size 14. Some idiot made a comment. It led to years of eating disorders. Aneroxia and bullimia. Her weight is now steady but she is anemic and has lost most of her teeth.
She was healthier as a size 14.
I am now obese and I use food as a crutch. I can lose weight when happy but not when things are bad. Being exposed to eating disorders as a early teen can't have helped
So yes op people should leave people alone.

this is a fascinating thread and an eye opener for me personally. thanks to every brave poster for sharing. hope just writing this stuff down helps in some small way.

well done whitchita and others

I overeat .. there I said it.

My thinking is sometimes if I eat 'this' or 'that' how thin a layer of fat will that make over my whole body?... and the answer is always 'a very thin layer, almost miniscule' that means it wont matter this time.

I also sometimes think that if we ate food and it ended up the same shape in your stomach i.e. a pizza and it ended up a circle wedged sideways in your tummy, you'd eat less, as it would be more noticeable

I know this is just ridiculous.

is it just me?

Lol, well that is ridiculous :) But I'm just as bad. I refuse to accept that chocolate is fattening if I have it with a cup of tea. I feel like as it enters my body as a hot liquid, it can't do any harm.

I don't problem overeat, but I do have the odd binge. I think at the time, this tastes so good, it simply can't be wrong. If my body wants it so much, who am I to deny etc.

I come from a long line of obese and morbidly obese people. The ones I can speak for (ie, my very close family) don't have the kind of self-harm thing you describe. They are just all there in the same place for lots of different reasons and I think for everyone, once you are there, it's so so hard to get back from.

I'm sorry this has been such an awful burden for you OP. I do know something of the pain and suffering you are going through, having seen it in my family, and I wish you all the best with tackling it.

One thing I will mention - with caution because I am the very last person to give advice on this and this isn't a thread about looking for advice - is that one family member had bariatric surgery, successfully. I agree with the poster who said it's really annoying that this is viewed as "cheating". There's also a view that you need to "fix your head" first - but that's easier said than done and if you could fix your head you'd probably lose the weight without the surgery. The naysayers are all a bit simplistic and kneejerk about it, imho. My observation was that what really helped was the massive headstart iyswim. My relative lost a huge amount of weight - her mental state didn't change as a result but she kept it off because she was no longer faced with an impossible task. I think that can be very valuable in itself.

I hope this isn't too out of place in a very thoughtful thread. I just wanted to share an experience I know of - about a method that is often misunderstood.

Not at all. And obviously I have considered it. But the small nagging abusive voice in my head says I am not worth it. That I should be able to exercise the necessary self-control to tackle it myself... Ridiculous but it shows how deep rooted the shame and is.

I think what I would like to achieve by spilling my guts here is that one person or more may stop stigmatising fat people. The shame keeps us secretive and unable to seek help, which perpetuates the cycle.

I don't want dieting tips, I want someone to ask how I am feeling. I feel so that when someone asks their doctor for advice, as seen below, that they are offered nutritional advice. There are so many well educated and articulate mn who get it so so wrong with this.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Thanks for letting me vent.

yes that made me angry too. To expose yourself to a medical professional and be treated like an idiot who doesn't know the basics

It's a very complex issue with complex solutions and a diet sheet is highly unlikely to be the fix. Keep talking Witchita - you do deserve to find a way out of these feelings.

Sadly so common though. It is distasteful to gorge on food and drs often treat it as such.

I spoke to my midwife, desperate to protect my baby. I was honest. She sent me to a nutritionist who gave me a diet sheet. I have also had counsellors pat me on the shoulder when is have brought it up anxious to talk about it and tell me that we should focus on something else and it will fix itself.

But worra, as I have said, with all the shame surrounding compulsive overeating many people would rather claim greed and enjoyment of food is the cause of their obesity than a compulsion. I have and continue to do this.

Yes but again you don't know how many

I get what you're saying but you can't tar obese people with the same brush because they are all individuals.

I'm sure there will be some that are reading this and taking offence to being 'diagnosed' for want of a better way to put it.

Thanks for starting this thread, Witchita (great namechange ) so much of it has rung true for me and I'm touched by others' stories. I have a lot in common with you and I don't know the answer but it definitely isn't fat-shaming.

One of my healthiest times was when I was pregnant, even though I was still overweight I was eating healthily, doing exercise, yoga and felt proud of my body because for once it was doing what I wanted and had a purpose rather than being this useless thing (my 'coat') I carried around. At one appointment a mw said how nice it was to see a 'normal healthy pregnant woman' - it made my day and was more motivating than any warnings or cruelty could ever have been.

As I have said. I am careful not to say all. It seems like you are just eager to discredit for the sake of it.

Surely it is more important that one person who has felt alone and miserable with this feels less alone?

I am obviously not speaking for the whole obese population of the world. I am not that arrogant. I do, however, speak for many many obese people who have felt misunderstood, judged and like failures. Any rational person could see that is all I am trying to say. It seems that you would be able to "blame" some obese people for simply lacking control...

When my family staged an intervention to get me help it was a revelation that other people felt like me. I have now met hundreds and hundreds of people who suffer with eating disorders and nearly all of them felt isolated before. The relief of that has been immense. Please don't belittle it.

Many apologies to anyone who feels like I have been "diagnosing" anything.

And mrsjones I love the term "coat". One of the reasons that people I have met who suffered sexual abuse as children binge eat is to make themselves "invisible" so that they can't be objectified.

I haven't been sexually abused, but a fear of having to reach my potential and not just be the boring fat one has often sabotaged my recovery.

I think you've got me totally wrong OP

I'm not 'blaming' anyone. Why would I? They don't affect me or my life.

I'm just pointing out that weight issues are generally quite complicated and personal to individual people.

Yes, but if it isn't an addictive and emotional process causing overeating then what is it? It can only be greed/weak will.

So those that don't have an addiction are weak willed? Or what is the cause of their obesity? I am genuinely interested.

I'm not at all surprised that people overeat and obesity is a problem. With modern day living abundance of food, processed stuff with the worst crap in it, less manual work outside and inside the home, less walking etc, people drink more. Really don't think it's surprising. It takes control and denial to stay within what's considered a healthy weight.

Before, people just didn't really have the opportunity. Food was scarce and had to be worked hard for.

Anyone who picks on someone because of their weight is just nasty full stop.

"It takes control and denial..."

So people who are fat lack control? Sorry to be precious about it but there is a whole vernacular to fat shaming that is ingrained in our rhetoric. I think you are understanding and being nice about obesity, but even so, these phrases slip in.

I weigh twice what I should. I've binged for as long as I can remember. I hate it and I hate myself.
Once I was a size 8, I was obsessive over every morsel that went into my mouth, I spent a couple of hours every day in the gym. being thin was all I thought about.
It's incredibly depressing to know that even if I get slim again the obsession won't go away, I'm going to have issues with food forever.

Yes, but if it isn't an addictive and emotional process causing overeating then what is it? It can only be greed/weak will.

So those that don't have an addiction are weak willed? Or what is the cause of their obesity? I am genuinely interested.

Well in my best friend's case she's quite open and honest. She's morbidly obese because she is very weak willed. She's 44 now and has been battling with her weight since her early teens. She'll tell you herself that she just loves too much of the wrong foods and far too much of it.

Some people are week willed and that's a fact.

Some people have compulsive eating disorders and that's also a fact.

There has been some very interesting threads in the last month or so where people have posted all sorts of reasons for being overweight or obese. All very personal to them.

My best friends see me plaster on a smile and pretend I love food as well.

There is a value judgement in calling someone weak willed. I would rather sound implausible labelling everyone as having an eating disorder than risk one miserable,suicidal compulsive overeater who is pretending that they are fat and happy being labelled weak-willed.

Think of all the people who make that snap judgement about me? It hurts. It really hurts. Particularly in a society where so much store is put in being strong.

It takes control and denial to lose weight, and for many people it takes control and denial to maintain healthy weight.

I can't see how this is fat shaming when really, it is just fact.

Because the opposite, ergo being obese, is not necessarily caused by a lack of control and the ability to deny oneself food. And that statement seems to imply it is.

You just won't have it will you?

I've known my best friend for 40 years and if she was a member of MN she'd tell you herself.

She's quite happy go lucky about it and not afraid to be honest at all. She's very confident in herself and has a wonderful DH, DD and close family. The only time I see her get annoyed regarding her weight, is when people claim to know better than her why she is obese.

You asked if those who don't have an addiction are weak willed and I answered that yes some people are.

I have no idea whether people make snap judgements about you, but if they do then they have no right to.

"So people who are fat lack control?" - they lack control about their eating - I think that is just a fact and is not meant to be an insult. i've often lacked control in my eating or on the flip side become obsessive and very controling about it - both not good. Doesn't mean they lack control about other areas in their life.

It's just too easy to access food, especially the wrong sort and too easy to put on weight.

By which I mean - if you read the thread - I have been anorexic and obese. Both caused by the same compulsion.