To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

Food for thought, not good for thought

Witchita I think your thread has sparked a really interesting discussion here, thank you and hope you do come back

Everyone CAN change, they just have to want to stop.

You are killing yourself. An estimated 300,000 deaths per year may be attributable to obesity. Dont be one of those statistics.

Three are millions of people recovering from addictions all over the world. No one said it is easy BUT it can be done.

Yes its great to share stories and support each other but that is not helping its just making you feel like its okay to carry on eating as you are not alone.

You will get a horrible illness please try to cut down before its too late.

Sobbing, I really, really don't think you get this thread at all. I would retreat gracefully before you make yourself look more stupid.

I am finding it pretty frustrating that people who have no experience of being addicted to food seem to think they have the answers.

I also haven't heard anyone say they aren't trying to address their issues. They already have a horrible illness. It is called addiction.

Thanks for this thread Witchita. It's really enlightening, and brave of you to open yourself up.

I've always had a difficult relationship with food, and from reading this I think it's gone from controlling/undereating to comfort/mild food addiction since my first pregnancy. I'm heavier than I was (underweight to normal BMI) but no-one would guess from looking at me that I have food issues.

My theory, for me at least, is that there's a link between the (false) comfort of food and the real comfort of a loving mother, which many of us didn't get enough of.

This reminds me a lot of the recent thread about heroin - the idea that it (heroin, and maybe overeating?) wouldn't feel very good for a person who's already comfortable in their own skin, but would feel great/numbing for someone who is troubled a lot of the time.

Sorry Wichita, I spelled your name wrong!

I am finding it pretty frustrating that people who have no experience of being addicted to food seem to think they have the answers.

How do you know I have no experience#?

I also haven't heard anyone say they aren't trying to address their issues. They already have a horrible illness. It is called addiction#

It is a choice. You choose to go to the shop and buy unhealthy food. You choose to eat huge amounts of it. You choose not to exersize.
You chose to let issues from your childhood affect you into adulthood. You choose to ignore doctors and others advice.

Coke, heroin,cigarette and alcohol addicts ADMIT they enjoy their chosen addiction food addicts just make excuses? WHY?

Great post about addiction, Partridge. I wish more people would allow themselves to see it for what it is.

I've posted in the past about my compulsive/addictive behaviours (not related to food) on the MH board. On there, I got nothing but kindness, understanding and support, reassurance that I would find the right way of getting emotionally healthy in order to be fir to tackle my behaviour, but that it wouldn't be a straight road to getting there. Nobody castigated me for feeling the way I did.

But you bring food into it - whole different story. Someone who has a healthy relationship with food telling someone who doesn't how much better they'll look and feel once they're no longer in danger of 'becoming a statistic' is spectacularly unhelpful.

Don't know if it's already been mentioned, but there's a pretty decent book about food addiction, Eating Less by Gillian Riley. Crappy title, but good inside!

Coke, heroin,cigarette and alcohol addicts ADMIT they enjoy their chosen addiction food addicts just make excuses? WHY?

Sobbing, addicts tell themselves and others that they 'enjoy' their addiction to normalise it and make it seem as if it's not a problem. Someone who has a healthy relationship with food enjoys it. Someone with an addiction uses it as a drug - to fill a void, to satisfy a compulsion. There's no enjoyment in that.

I'm an addicted smoker and I would say I do it much less for enjoyment than because I feel like I have to. Or I'll crack up. Rationally, that's not true, but it's very much a mental health issue which I'm trying to fight. If I could stop smoking, no problems, tomorrow, I would.

Addiction is a behaviour. The drug of choice can change regularly. Have you been to an oa meeting? Or an na meeting? Or an aa meeting? I would imagine not. I have been to all. And the feelings and experiences are interchangeable as well as many of the faces. Many of them have struggled with all types of addiction.

So I'm afraid you are talking balls about food addicts vs other addicts.

And it is insulting and crass to suggest that an alcoholic enjoys alcohol.

But whether you think someone you do not know is healthy or not is none of your concern! Do you watch smokers with the same disgust? Or people binge drinking? Or slim people that eat crap and do no exercise? Or is just fat people you judge?

but how do you know this for sure about your sister, everlong?

I'm absolutely not hoping she's suffering from the pain of addiction, but those of us with addictions (especially those like food, which a lot of society still doesn't see as legit) are good at hiding them, pretending we choose to act the way we do, out of carpe diem, fuck the consequences spirit. And the truth in most cases is that this is just a front for our hatred of ourselves.

It's such a complex area and part of the problem is so many people try to generalise which simply isn't possible. I have managed to tackle my demons (to an extent) and begin to take control of my weight, but even that doesn't put me in a position to tell others what to do or what works - it is simply what has worked for me.

The addiction thing is really interesting tbough, I have replaced my chocolate/cake/carb addiction with an exercise addiction. Although health wise that's a better addiction it still comes with the same lack of control and need to exercise so really is it as good as I like to think? I obviously just have an addictive personality.

I agree sirzy. But I would also argue that those who have first hand experience if being fat are in a better situation to speculate on the issues.

As someone down thread said, I don't think any morbidly obese people have come on this thread to say that they are a bit greedy, love food but are happy with their weight.

Whereas lots and lots have come on to identify with the op.

ever did you read the posts where people have said their own partners and family have no idea of the truth?

But I am sure it is different with you. You are so calm and accepting of peoples food issues that I am sure anyone in your family would confide in you in confidence....

I agree partridge first hand experince certainly helps.

Ever long - have you ever considered that perhaps there is a reason for the yoyo dieting? What you have posted about her sounds so much like me this time last year. I don't think it's as simple as you are trying to make out.

I think it is quite sad that an intelligent discussion about food and weight issues is being derailed by people like everlong and sobbing who seem to think they know more than everybody else whilst spectacularly missing the point

I agree that we cannot state with certainty that everybody who is obese has a food addiction and I would never presume to speak for others but I think we can reasonably assume that somebody who persists with a particular behaviour, knowing it is reducing their life expectancy and quality of life may have some issues worth exploring.

everlong Your sister sounds just like I was for years. I wanted to be thinner, I would try for a while and make progress then slip back. I even said all the things that you say she says to you and over that time of yo-yoing I went from 4 stone overweight to 7 stone overweight so morbidly obese.

It was only when I decided to give up dieting and began exploring other approaches that I began to realise more about me, I had been trying to treat a symptom rather than looking for a cause if that makes sense.

Exactly piscivorus. Having an obese sister does not qualify as having firsthand experience.