To want to offer up to all the fat shamers...

[WichitaLineman]

... On mumsnet who peddle the old "fat people are lazy and lack will -power" or proffer their simplistic formula of "eat less, move more" an incredibly succinct description of food addiction by Marcus Brigstocke. I will admit that that sentence isn't quite so succinct

"Eating is different [from drug addiction]; it's dirty, it's horrible - you do it on your own and you wear it. [With] alcohol and drugs, you have moments of sobriety, [but] you don't stop being fat. You wear it; everyone can see it - it is a brand… an overcoat of shame for everyone to see.

"You despise yourself, you make promises to yourself, you say 'I had a bad day, that was bad but that means this is baseline and I can start', then you go and break those promises and do it again, and worse.

"Eating disorders are more pervasive and subtle [than alcohol and drugs] and availability and acceptability are much higher... the ”high“ comes from the totally full-up feeling ”It is an anaesthetic. You lie like a python digesting what you have, it slows your brain down and you are physically inert. Numb and dull, that is the feeling you get."

Whilst I am not saying that every obese person is a compulsive overeater, I wold wager that most are, including myself. This has resonated with me and is the best description I have read of the self-loathing involved in compulsive overeating. It is a faulty mechanism to deal with emotional pain and the fat shamers can't cause any more shame than we already feel for ourselves.

Whilst there are many people on mn who are understanding, I am always appalled by those who aren't. Please think on this when those threads come up. Thank you.

Ice you are wasting your breath I'm afraid, Everlong and Suskia have conveniently proved Wichita's entire point about how obese people are judged. Unfortunately this thread isn't going to make all those people who judge stop and think there might be more to the issue than following the trite 'just eat less move more' NHS advice. I hope they and their children never have any MH, medical or weight gain issues that force them to look at it differently .

It also depends what you class as obese. I lurk on some of these threads and people say yes BMI is right and we are getting fatter etc etc
I'm obese from BMI. I work my arse off to not be. I know I have a lot to go but... Obese people aren't all waddling about stuffing junk food
This is me, obese
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fat doesn't always mean unhealthy

Yes it does.
Of course it does.
It staggers me that people honestly delude themselves into believing that there is such a thing as healthy fat.
Do you have any idea what this totally avoidable obesity epidemic will do to our health system?

Also you only have to exceed your calorie expenditure by about 5% a day over the course of 10 years or so to put on 12 stone.

5% isn't a massive shift in your metabolism...its an extra banana a day.

I eat 1800 calories a day, low carb and exercise a LOT
what else am I meant to do? My BP is normal, my resting pulse is around 63, I can complete a one hour spin class/circuits/body pump without a problem
How am I more unhealthy than my size 6 friend who wheezes running for a bus, doesn't exercise and eats processed food every day?

suskia it does of course depend on how fat we are talking about. people with BMI in the 25-30 range can be healthy with no increased risk factors. Most aren't but some are.

I notice you don't respond to my point about a person who is fat but has already LOST a huge amount of weight being an excellent diet advisor then?

You start by challenging this negative comment first of all, and reply "well actually I am worth it because I (here you insert all the good things about you and yes, you will have to sit down and have a good think about these good things

I have great difficulty with this, having been brought up very much with the idea of bragging being the worst thing you can do. You never even admit to competence, because it would make you big-headed. I find it very, very difficult, even now, to say I'm particularly good at anything. I makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

Yes yes yes to that.

Mindfulness and acceptance therapy is the only thing to make an impact on this issue with me. To some extent I still feel like I'm only making my positive statements to please others (therapist, or friend who compliments me) and like I secretly don't agree with it. But I think it is, slowly, starting to work.

I have not only had addiction therapy. Jesus, do I have to go over this again? I have had cbt, I have tried every diet going, I have had endless cycles of psychotherapy, I have joined slimming clubs.

The 12 step programme worked for me. I lost half my body weight and felt free. The. I got complacent, stopped following the steps and got fat again.

This was not meant to be an appeal for amateur psychologists to sort me out. Honestly.

Yup. Some recent posters are showing disgraceful discrimination. I am genuinely shocked. And so so glad that you are not my parents and able to heap your scorn upon me.

ever I can't imagine what excuses you think I am making.

you asked me if I could believe someone gaining 2 stone through shift work. I can. because it is a tiny amount of difference per day that accumulates over a decade.

12 not 2...

At least you have stopped talking about "condoning" obese people. Everlong. Thank fuck for that.

Oh Suskia - wouldn't it be wonderful if you were in charge of tackling this obesity crisis. You could dispense your wonderful advice, which I guarantee would help virtually no one. Or alternatively you could instigate eugenics. That is where this debate is heading .

So why isn't everyone 20 odd stone?

Because not everyone does shiftwork?
Because people are not all the same, and therefore what works for one person might do nothing at all for someone else?

Further to that idea, Atkins works brilliantly for my husband and my sister, and just doesn't work at all for me.

I am not defending any of the recent posts but some people just really don't get it. My dh has absolutely no concept that food can have an emotional component. He eats when he is hungry. If he puts weight on he cuts back. It is simple to him and he just can not grasp why it is not that simple for everyone. Ignorance is bliss for some.

Everlong, can I suggest that you read the fucking thread, then see if you want to ask that question again?

It's a typically masculine view Jennifer (whether held by a man or a woman) - emotional eating is usually much more of an issue for women than men and probably yes, on the whole I think lucky them .

FFS this thread is not about whether fat is healthy or whether thin nurses are better than fat ones, you are missing the whole point of what, up till now was an intelligent, informative and thought-provoking discussion of the psychology of overeating and food addiction.

I used to tell my children, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all which a couple of people here could do with observing.
On a thread about fat shaming the last thing that is needed is body fascists

Scar, to address one thing in your thread - I mean that I am not in denial about obesity or my behaviour - doesn't mean I am ready to deal with it right now (although actually by having therapy I am trying and have actually lost some weight - again I don't want this to be too sidetracked by weight - it's about the feelings that make me act out).

Also, yes, I have issues with my parents, but as an addict blame is a dangerous game that can stop me from taking responsibility. Self pity is a comfortable deflection.

I actually believe that addiction is a disease and is caused by faulty synapses (there is empirical evidence for this) so actually I don't put too much store in my fucked up (or otherwise) childhood. And actually my parents are pretty great and did their best.

Sometimes I eat loads until I feel quite sick because then I focus on that feeling rather than depression.

When I had anorexia, the feeling you get when beyond hungry is a powerful drug that puts you on a high.

I'd go back to being anorexic any day, much due to the difference in social acceptance (being overweight = worth less than a skinny person)
Unfortunately it's not a choice I can make, though it's two sides of the same coin. Currently doing really well on controlling it and eating a good diet, though I have a few days of not eating, and a few days of overeating randomly chucked in. And no, it's not bulimia.

What I find so sad is the number of people on here who hate food. Good food is one of life's great pleasures surely? I've decided I'd rather be a dress size bigger and love my food than slimmer and get obsessive about it. I speak as someone who used to be tiny but is now a happy 12/14.