to be surprised how regularly posters casually suggest an OP makes a hugely significant or expensive change to their life?

[Thurlow]

Not sure if I've managed to word that title well!

This one has been bugging me for a while. An OP has a problem, maybe with work, or timings, or travel or something. Most posters come up with reasonable suggestions that might help. But there's always someone - and sometimes quite a few people - who suggest a massive change in the OP's life, as if it's something really easy to do.

For example, the ones that stick with me are...

well, obviously you have to learn to drive - as if learning to drive happens over night, and doesn't require time, money and possibly childcare.

you have to move house/out of London - because people can just find the money to move house easily, or wants to move away from their friends and support network.

you should get a new job - this one in particularly, because we all know that that thousands of employers are struggling to fill part-time jobs with child-friendly hours that pay enough to cover childcare too...

I know this is just a chat forum, and that you can ignore any posters and advice you like - but, but, but... Does anyone else get a bit about how casually some posters make suggestions like this?

i always laugh at " cut and colour"

its the Eton MEss and antipasti of frumpy threads

The one that shocks me most, OP is the "why don't you/why doesn't your DH get a better paying job?"

That one really pisses me off! Irrationally so. As if there are people that are so far removed from reality that theyvthink someone who has money worries is purposefully working in a lower paid job when there is another one that pays more just waiting for them.

I hate spa weekends. They're not a solution to anything. DSis and I had an epic argument in a spa once shudder

The driving though - from a London perspective, you don't really need to, but if you live many other places you are really cutting down your options if you don't. It makes me a bit and when I come across elderly women who never learnt and are now totally dependent on others.

Or the "it's all down to priorities" - especially when used to explain how people can afford for their 4 children to go to private school, or how they can afford to have paid of their huge mortgage by the time they're 27.

Like driving a 5 year old car, eating beans on toast and homemade soup twice a week, and not renewing your mobile phone any less often than 2 years is all that is required....

The job one drives me sodding loopy. There's been a recession, for god's sake. Plenty of people are lucky to have a job. There are not better paid, part-time, or flexible working jobs out there in their thousands.

Or if anyone dare says "work harder, get a payrise" I desperately want to know what job people who say things like that, or say drop down to 4 days a week, do. Pretty much everyone I know either works in the public sector and is paid by grade, or works in a company that doesn't do flexible working.

I've often suggested that an OP considers leaving their job, moving, reducing hours etc etc and been lynched for posting it on occasion.

Perhaps it's because I'm not specific about what I mean - when I suggest changing jobs or reducing hours, What I mean is for the OP to totally review their lifestyle to decide if living on a lower income is something they'd be prepared to live with in exchange for eliminating whatever the issue is that they have posted about.

I'm a great believer in everything in life being a choice and there being positives and negatives to every option.

SirChen those posters always remind me of my mum who has insisted for twenty years that everyone could afford to take their children for two weeks holiday abroad somewhere nice and cultured if only they didn't waste money on SkyTV.

The one that bugs me is:

Problem with friends- solution: drop them, cut them out of your life, defriend and never see again (perhaps telling them why beforehand in the spirit of honesty).

With a very nasty person this can be appropriate, but I've never actively cut anyone out of my life ever, more just drifted apart a bit. I never go through my friends just weeding out the ones who don't call enough/suck energy/don't call me immediately when there's a crisis etc. I never feel the need to tell them honestly how I feel either, I really don't know anyone who does this to their friends in RL.

The other one that really gets me is:

OP - My DH leaves me to do all the housework, childcare and everything to do with the family because I am a SAHM. Then he comes in and says I am lazy because there is a bit of lego on the floor

MN Advice - Just walk out. Go away for the weekend (to a Spa?) and leave him to it. He will be on his knees with recognition for all your hard work, hold you in awe for ever more and never criticise you again.

Actually that sort of nasty bastard is far more likely to put in a massive once-in-a-lifetime effort, and you will walk in the door to an immaculate house, tidy kids, and probably some DIY done as well. He will then lie through his teeth, claim it was all a piece of piss and use the fact that he coped with this one-off novelty responsibility as a metaphorical stick to beat you with about your laziness for the next 40 years.

Oh and someone else will post that tedious thing about "well you are always asking me what I do all day - today I didn't do it."

Were you the poster who suggested my parent's garage for my family Frog?!

I think you have to be very careful when suggesting that a reduction in income might be a solution to the problem - unless the OP has explained in detail what income is needed in order for their family to function. Otherwise the advice comes across as trite.

My favourite is : Have a glass of wine Op that will cheer you up ! Wrong on so many levels but a very British to do

Maybe there should be a mumsnet campaign then to make driving more accessible I am confused by people who insist that everyone should learn, yes, it would be nice but IT COSTS ELEVENTY MILLION POUNDS. Or at least it does in comparison to the money we have available, and the money my (single) mother had available when I was 17. I was at full time college then so didn't earn enough to afford a car either and even if I did, I was kind of assuming that once I was working full time I'd have money available for that sort of thing.

Yes - driving is not a life skill. Driving is a very nice skill and important to most of the UK but, you know, it's not the same sort of lifeskill as being able to not poison yourself with raw chicken or not spend a month's wages in two days.

Sky TV DOES seem hugely expensive though. I get 2 UK channels and record everything else for free on filmon.com. It hardly sounds like a major deprivation to not have Sky.

i like the ones where people smoke drink or have drug problems .......... just stop then , oh to be perfect like some on here .

It is quite expensive, it's just not nearly expensive as 2 weeks abroad for 4. Cancelling sky will not pay for a summer holiday. Over a few years it might I suppose, but then that family has to weigh up whether they'd like a holiday every 5 years or instant entertainment every day...

sirchenjin No, not me - but in terms of what income is needed for the family to function, that is exactly the kind f thinking I am challenging.

I appreciate I'm placing my own values on this - but I chose to take voluntary redundancy and sell my home (coming off the housing ladder as a result) a few years ago; I've never been happier, or ever had a lower income or less financial security!

That sort of choice seems to induce terror in anyone I've spoken to online or IRL.
I think if something is making someone unhappy, ALL options should be considered!

Well it was suggested that I work full time to employ a Croatian nurse to look after my dd who is severely disabled once
Or twice
Boggled doesn't come close

Oh yes, "just stop smoking, it's easy, I decided I didn't want to smoke any more and just didn't smoke"

Well, considering that smoking is both expensive and anti-social, chances are if the OP would find it that easy to quit then they would have quit already.

Worse when someone has that attitude to an OP who has dared to ask for advice stopping smoking when they find out they were pregnant

I DO think re. LTB threads, though, that usually OP has reached a point where she is asking for help, sometimes desperately, and that LTB is often the correct advice. I could post incessantly about my minor quibbles but it would be very boring, and usually having a serious conversation is sufficient - tis about those that have reached an end of tether situation usually. Though of course there are some posts where, ffs get a grip and talk to him would be more appropriate advice. And that usually IS the advice in those cases tbf.

I think someone else pointing out that such and such behaviour IS totally unreasonable and they would not put up with it, IS useful advice as it validates the OPs feelings and makes them think about how to move it forward.

And that's fine for you Frog - and it's your decision. However, suggesting that someone makes serious financial sacrifices isn't challenging them - it's akin to saying "take the roof from over your family's head and all the security they've known during a really difficult time". Which is hardly a serious option.

Btw - how did your family and children react when you placed yourself and them in a precarious financial position?

But isn't that kind of the point of a big forum like MN? Yes there's the hive mind but that changes. And I think that sometimes hearing that you could make a huge change is a good thought provoker for some. Some people will do it, some won't. Just like some people could have a huge lottery win and continue with their lives as they are and others could use £500 to transform their lives. It's all up to the individual. But what strikes about MN and why I read so much is actually the wide range and balance of views and opinions. Lots of people have day to day lives where they never discuss anything big with anyone. The Internet gives them the space to do that. Sweeping ideas can be frustrating or thought provoking-like Xenia challenging people to make £1k a day rather than a month. Sweeping, yes. Challenging, yes. Out of reach for many? Yes. BUT if that spoke to someone about standing their ground and meant they got a better deal that's a sweep worth having. (And for the record it resonated with me and I've been much fiercer about demanding the best rate for anything I do.)

I like the 'i'm trying to diet' ones and someone says eat less, move more. The 'H has just eaten the last packet of crisps' divorce the bastard posts are also helpful.

But if the difficult time can be alleviated by choosing a change in standard of living then surely it should be a consideration?

Is financial security more valuable than happiness/freedom from Mental Illness/saving a relationship - or, in some cases, is living with financial insecurity a better option?

I'm not suggesting that the decision is taken by the OP alone if it impacts on others (I did take the decision alone because it was only myself and my young DD to consider), but putting the idea on the table for discussion is surely a reasonable suggestion?

It's up to the poster in question to make those decisions - it's not really up to anyone else to say (or even imply) "I gave up my financial security, therefore you should too" - that is nothing more than projection. Often, financial insecurity is a cause of mental ill health and relationship difficulties - and so I would urge caution with offering that advice in those circumstances.

I'm glad it's worked for you and your DD, but everyone's circumstances are different, and it would be far better to suggest that they speak to a financial expert or CAB to see if there are financial alternatives (if that's appropriate to the post in question) than to 'challenge' them to replicate what you did.