AIBU or is my friend? Fear of paedophiles

[aroundeverycorner]

I have n/c for this as I don't want to be outed, but am a regular poster.It's long, sorry

Bit of background. My best friend is lovely, and a brilliant mum to her kids (two boys and a girl) Our eldest DDs are the same age, in their last year of primary school. My friend comes from a 'good' family- very well to do and respectable- but in her teens and early twenties, was a bit of a wild child. Lots of partying, drugs etc. She was with a notorious drug dealer for 4 years and generally engaged in some very risky behaviour. On one occasion, she was raped when she had passed out at a house party, and this probably has a bearing on her behaviour now.

Fast forward. She is a devoted mum, but has always been especially paranoid about paedophiles. DH nicknames her 'Mrs Anything Could Happen' because that is her catch phrase. It goes beyond natural concern in my opinion. She won't let her children be alone in a car with anyone except her mother, father, husband, or one of her very close friends (me and about two other women). At a family reunion, she wouldn't even let her BIL take the children upstairs to play Xbox. She ripped into her husband on one occasion, when she found out that he had left eldest DS (8) alone in the kitchen with a workman for 5 minutes- the husband had only popped out to the garden shed to get something.

I have gently tried to point out to her how irrational these fears are, but it is very hard to argue with her, because she says things like 'everyone is a stranger' and 'how do you know someone ISN'T a paedophile' 'it only takes a few minutes for a child's life to be ruined' etc. She is also very against men- says they are all beasts and that even good men have something disgusting and animalistic in them, given half a chance

So far it hasn't had a massive impact on our friendship, because are children were at an age where it was to be expected that they would be kept close. However, our girls will be starting big school in September, and I have been working on allowing DD more independence and freedom. We live in a small, safe, comfortable town. I now allow DD to cycle to a friend's, to the shop, the park, and her grandparents, all within a mile, give or take. She got a basic mobile phone for Christmas, so she has that to use in case anything happens (though my mind runs more towards punctures than perverts)

On Friday, my friend's DD came round for tea. Thoughtlessly, I let the girls walk our puppy around our cul de sac. I have always allowed my children to play in the cul de sac to a certain degree- nothing noisy or extreme, because of the number of retired residents, but bicycles, roller skates etc. It is very, very safe and I didn't think twice about the puppy. They were gone maybe 10 minutes maximum, and that was only because they stopped and sat on the end wall for a little while (I could see them the whole way around)

Anyway, friend found out when she came to pick up her DD, and practically had a panic attack in my hall. Anything could have happened, bottom of cul de sac is too far away from my house, the girls could have been bundled into a van before I got stop them, how could I take such a risk etc. I apologised, but pointed out that I really didn't think that they were in any danger. Friend went on long rant about 'the world' and about how it was a horrible and terrifying place, and we couldn't take any chances, and made mention of her rape as proof of the awful things that can happen.

This is where I am really upset at myself and should have kept my mouth shut. Friend often refers back to the awful people she used to associate with in her younger days, when she was with the drug dealer, in a 'the things I've seen/what people are capable of' way, and uses this as her reasoning for her overprotection of her children.

So on this occasion, I said that she shouldn't compare the two scenarios, because that was at a time in her life when she was keeping really dodgy company, and was around some truly awful people, but that there was no reason to think that her DD would ever be in situations like that- I mean, most girls don't go out with drug dealers and therefore do not have all sorts banging their front door at 3am, waving knives around and looking for a fix!

However, my friend took this to mean that she had brought her rape on herself, because of the company she kept. I absolutely did not mean this, and feel awful that she thought that is what I was implying. Tried to explain to her, but she was having none of it, got her DD, (girls had been in another room watching TV) and left.

I don't know what to do now. I am sorry for upsetting her, but I'm not sure what I said was unfair. I worry about how her DD will cope at school in September, and what it will mean for our friendship and that of our girls

It doesn't matter if her fears are irrational or not, if you want to look after her children then you need to respect her wishes.

She is trying to make sure her children's childhood/lives are not tainted, count yourself luck you do not have understanding of what this feels like.

Why is she wrong though and you are right?

I'd email her pretty much say what you have posted.
However, you might have to accept that you aren't willing to have a friend impose such controls over how you behave. It's a tough one.

She sounds completely over the top. Hopefully her attitude (which is understandable if you think what's happened to her in the past) won't have too much of an impact on her child- but in my opinion this kind of overprotectiveness is really not good for children, so she may end up inadvertently damaging her poor daughter through trying to protect her. Hope you manage to smooth things over with her, but it must be difficult as many similar issues may come up again and again.

I can kind of understand why she feels that way, but in reality, her fears are a bit irrational and OTT aren't they? maybe I'm a bit naive but i do tend to think most people are 'good' inside rather than 'everyone I don't know and most i do are potential murderers / rapists / paedos'.
It must make life very stressful for her - particularly as her children get older. They will have to get some independence surely? Or will the 'fear' rub off on them and taint their lives?

I'm that you said that to her!
Now, you may well be a nice person but that was way out of line and victim blaming.

I don't think she is wrong/I am right. I am now questioning my own judgement and wondering if I am doing the right thing.

She asked me to look after her DD- she was taking the boys to the cinema and DD didn't want to go. Usually I am very aware of her fears about her children's safety, but just didn't think about the walk round the cul de sac- our puppy has not been allowed outside for long, and it's still a big novelty to take him for a walk. As it was right outside my front door, and I was watching them, I honestly didn't consider it as a problem

All you can do is apologise for the comment you made to her.

I don't think you should concern yourself on how protective she is over her children. You may not know the full extent of her past experience and what she has been exposed to.

I don't think the OP is victim blaming.

Neither do I

She has a shock coming as her dc head for teenage years

I had a very middle class upbringing with absolutely no drugs or partying and still came into contact with more paedophiles and rapists than you can ever imagine. I too am very protective over my DC...and rightly so. The rape is a red herring, I am sure her worries are much more deeply set, she probably found the rape the easiest thing to tell you about. Even as a mature paranoid adult I recently discovered I had invited a paedophile into my house putting my child in danger.

Her fear does she irrational but maybe there is something she isn't telling you... I think you were right saying you can't compare what she went through to letting your dd out in the cul-de-sac.

I don't think proportionally there are any more paedophiles about today than there was years ago, I think it's just today the news openly report on these things now. I also think it might seem like more because of the amount of times you hear about it in the news but I find all the new stations speak about the same cases so it makes it feel like everything you listen to can be talking about it but they are all talking about the same case.

Leaving aside the issue of whether or not you are being unreasonable - not sure, but you were perhaps (understandably) tactless

your friend would clearly benefit from counselling to help her deal with past events. Saying things like all men are animals - will she look at her own son and think this? She needs to find a degree of peace she clearly doesn't have; for her sake and for the sake of her kids. You are right it is not healthy for them to be prevented from the natural growth towards independence. It will harm them in the long term. But their mum needs to be able to do this herself.

I would arm yourself with wine and flowers and go round. Apologise for letting her DD do something you know she wouldn't have wanted (because you would be equally po'd if it were the other way around), apologise for coming across as tactless and tell her you are there to listen and help, that you want to help because she is your dear friend. She needs that help, even if she doesn't yet realise it herself. Her life was out of control - she is trying very hard to keep control of it (and her kids) to try to feel safe because that was ripped away from her in the past. You just ripped it away again, unintentionally, and you need to try to heal the wound you caused.

TBH, I think a child in the last year of primary school should be able to walk around a cul de sac with a friend. I feel that she is being extremely overprotective. What is she going to do in September?

She really needs to come to terms with her own issues and separate that from her daughter's need to develop some degree of independence.

I guess for the sake of the friendship you could apologise this time, but perhaps at some point in future try to see if you can get her to relax a bit about her children. She is really not doing them any favours.

I think you were kinda saying that. She's very aware that you never know as it has happened to her. It's bound to make he more conceded.

I was not victim blaming. She had briefly mentioned the rape as in a 'look what happened to me way,' but then she went on about some other incidents that had happened, when the drug dealer's friend had been stabbed when walking down the street. She was using this to underline her point as to 'things that can happen in broad daylight'. I was then that I said 'yes, DF, but don't forget you were in X big city at the time, and they were a scary crowd anyway, if you hadn't been going out with Z you wouldn't have known any of those people or the things that happened to them'

She then took that to mean that I held her responsible for her rape, which I absolutely do not.

You probably shouldn't have said what you said re her rape but TBH if she lets her children go places to play then she needs to trust the judgement of the parent that they are being left with ,and if she is unable to do that then she should keep her children at home so she can supervise them . Is she planning on taking and collecting her dd from school every day forever ?

The OP has already identified the point where she feels she upset her friend and overstepped the mark so why have a go at her? She was shocked to be attacked when she honestly thought she was looking after both children and ensuring their safety. She is wondering about how things might develop as their expectations drift further apart, which I think is quite reasonable.

I think what you said to her is pretty rude actually. 'You were raped because you were keeping dodgy company' is rather blame-y, especially when juxtaposed against your safe little street.

I agree she sounds OTT about risk but your choice is to either put up with it or not be friends.

I've been through a lot of nonsense myself and while I don't think it's made me too overprotective, it's really hard to 'un-remember' how awful human beings can be.

I don't think it's victim blaming at all - statistically I'm sure a young vulnerable woman passed out at party full of dodgy people is far more likely to be raped than two children walking a puppy round a safe cul-de-sac in front of a parents house.

'if you hadn't been going out with Z you wouldn't have known any of those people'

including the people who raped her?

I get you didn't intend to victim blame but your comments were really unfortunate.

And I agree with Buzzard that you probably don't even know the worst stuff that happened.

Op, I don't think YWBU or victim blaming in any way! A lady I work with has a 15 year old daughter who she won't even let walk in the dark on a main road for 5 minutes on her own. I feel truly sorry for the girl as she has been wrapped up in cotton wool and has no independence.

I expect her fears come from being abused as a child and that probably explains her risky behaviour as a teenager. It is very common for abused children to go wild! I expect the rape is the easiest abuse for her to talk about.

I think you need to write her an apology so she can read it in her own time.

I think what you said to her is pretty rude actually. 'You were raped because you were keeping dodgy company' is rather blame-y, especially when juxtaposed against your safe little street.

Read my previous post- that is nowhere near what was said/the structure of the conversation.

I think I was tactless, and I didn't mean to be.We've been friends for a long time and I have never challenged her decisions. However, as she was having a panicked go at me in my own house, for something I (rightly or wrongly) hadn't considered a safety issue, I suppose I felt attacked.

If I'm honest, I am worried about her. She has always been nervy, but recently she has got somewhat worse- I do think it is worry as her DD faces secondary school.

You should respect her wishes regarding rules surrounding her kids but with the same token she probably needs professional help in order to come to terms with her past.
I'd imagine she's probably feels emotionally exhausted with being consumed with so much worry and panic and with this combination it's hard to be rational.
Like chippednailvarnish said, it would probably be a good idea to email what you've posted.