aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

Sashh, to answer your question, I think it is because Jews - do not cover their faces, JW - do not cover their faces, Nuns - do not cover their faces. As for your reference to Kate Middleton, I really cannot compare her wedding veil to the wearing of a burka.

Have to take my veil hat off to the Jewish ladies for their take on the modesty rules. They get round the rule of only allowing their husbands to see their glorious manes by covering up with... A wig that looks as close to what their own hair looks like Is it me or is the point somehow lost in that case.

imagine if your dh told you to wear a longer/shorter skirt and you posted that in here. posters would be falling over themselves to tell you it's abuse and control, get help, leave the bastard

But it seems that abuse is cultural too. What counts as abuse in the west does not elsewhere according to some posters.

And yet again people seem to trying to deliberately ignore that some women do it because THEY WANT to, not because of any MALE influence...whether you want to believe it or not!

I can't believe that some women would want to dress un super tight jeans that don't allow you to breathe and heels that they can hardly walk in, but they do.

Each to their own. Stop picking on women who have made a choice, especially under the guise of trying to 'liberate' them!

So you didn't read the article addicted ?

You've also seem to 'deliberately ignore' the reasons for women wearing the burqa. You 'deliberately ignore' to see why it's degrading, oppressing and makes women inferior to men.

addicted you are deliberately ignoring the women who would rather not. Why?

I read the article Jimmy....poor author didn't seem to understand choice either.

Yes, some ppl are forced to weae them, yes some ppl do it for the reasons you suggest, but not ALL. For those who do it for whatever reasons they CHOOSE, why do you feel it is your RIGHT to tell them what to think or not think. Makes you worse the these 'muslim men' you are trying to 'protect' them from.

Another - no one is arguing that it is right for some one else to tell others what to wear.

Ironically, that's what you are arguing for.

there is no choice in some countries to NOT wear the burkah though.

how would you possibly know if it's free choice or not?

don't you think that the women who say they are happy to swathe themselves in a tent like material and cover their faces maybe just maybe are frightened to express their real opinion.

look there has to be a line in the sand here. female and male circumcision carried out at home is blatant abuse of children. it's cruel and mutilating. should we say oh well it's their culture or religion?

you have to at some point stand up and say its wrong. just like page 3, just like child abuse and domestic violence.

a women or female child feeling she has to cover head to feet in material to appease her father/brother/is just wrong.

"*someone on mumsnet described the rise of the niquab among young muslim women as 'punk rock' and I think this is true - it is real rebellion against their more moderate parents and western society in general/"

I imagine that there is some truth in this. I've heard of women/girls wearing the niqab who come from from families who don't cover and consider themselves moderate Muslims. Even heard of husbands how aren't that happy with their wives choice to cover to this extent. Some choose, I'd imagine more are coerced or come from cultures where it is what they are comfortable with.

It's nice you have the 'choice' in a western country.

I find it rather disingenuous when people start claiming some sort of equivalency with high heels or skinny jeans. It is not the same, also about how women in the west are sexualised and repressed - it does go on, but it certainly goes on in Muslim countries too. I have seen the 'red light district' in a town in Tunisia, small huts with men literally queuing down the street, at lunchtime. What support or help is there fir these women? Health checks? Help with the inevitable trauma? Help becoming independent and finding work?

It's all very well adopting niquab and freely criticising eaten culture but the fact is that life fir women in western culture is better.

Because of the REASONS why it's worn addicted.

You do understand those reasons I assume?

What are the countries where every woman have to wear a burkha?

huddle of the burqa wearers - the women are choosing not to be seen. I may describe someone else as 'the lady with the pretty blue hijab' or the 'tall lady with blonde hair'. Everyone clad in black is not easy is it? How would someone in a niqab expect to be described? ???

Describe them as anonymous because that is how they seem to me, stripped of anything remotely personal or unique to their own being or personality.

From the Fazana Hassan article: "A local Muslim group is supporting them, arguing that the niqab is simply an expression of Wahhabi Islam—the extremist version of Islam which is promoted and financed around the world by Saudi Arabia." Which is exactly the problem: it is an expression of an extremist and very intolerant interpretation of Islam. I can understand Saudi women continuing to wear the niqab since they have grown up with it: I feel a lot more uncomfortable about women from other Muslim communities adopting it. FWIW, I live in a Muslim country where, when I first visited in the 1980s, it was common for women to wear the local version of niqab to cover their faces after they married, while unmarried girls and women did not cover their face or even their hair at that period. In the late 1980s the niqab suddenly fell out of favour, and women were happy to see it go. It is only in the past 15 years that it has become common for young unmarried women to wear hijab. A very small minority of young women now wear the Saudi style niqab.

some people are so eager to fall over themselves to prove their anti prejudice agendas that they blatantly ignore the abuse that is in front of them. they are terrified of being called racist or seemingly ignoring another's culture or religion.

i wonder how many on here who feel that women have no choice actually know, really know any muslim women

not just had a chat with them about them wearing a burka (i surprised these women want to bother speaking to a stranger about their choice of clothes) or a niqab, know about their lives, their home life, background the choices they make, the difference in family dynamics, understand the difference in opinions and values of muslims, which differ from family to family and culture to culture but how many on here shouting these women have no choice really know many muslim women

and yes i have read the article i agree with some points made but not all

fancyashandy it varies over time, as someone below says at one point in saudi. At the moment in parts of Pakistan, which I must admit I was totally ignorant of until I read 'I am Malala'. Very good read for anyone interested in the subject of womens rights at the present time......

Fancy Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan so obviously when the troops pull out that will extend.

Pakistan, India, in the Muslim areas, some middle Eastern countries.

in most areas it is in the control of the males of the family, father, husband, brother.

Addicted do you seriously seriously believe women would choose to wear it. really deep down hand in heart you really belive that.

Anybody in particular you're referring to Body?

Jimmy - you do understand that can be more than the reasons you know or want to acknowledge.

Fruedian I think the whole choice thing is so complex, as in the first place people generally will marry those with similar values to themselves (well assuming they have a choice).

My husband may have a view on what women look nice in, therefore I am influenced by that, even though I definitely wear what I want..... .

There is also DEFINITELY repression, no doubt of it.

i do not think anyone is arguing about women being forced to wear a niqab or burka we know that is the case

but i am also aware that in our society some muslims are returning to a more traditional form of islam. educated women are making a choice for themselves often going against their family. this is not only happening here but in other more moderate muslim countries. i lived in tunisia for year i never ever saw a women in a full veil apart from at one wedding we went to (the brided in traditional dress passed down). when my exmil came here she was shocked at how many women she saw wearing a niqab even though she had lived in france for many years but now my ex's niece (who studied in the states) and other family members are choosing to wear the hijab and some the niqab this was not the case until recently as now they have the freedom to make that choice and not be influenced by western ideals

you say you know women who choose of their own free will to wear a burka, their choice not their husbands/fathers or their community. their own free choice.

I am asking you a simple question. do you believe them?

they do not wear the burka they wear a niqab

absolutely, not all are married they are strong, independent, educated women

that may come as a shock to some as they are muslim, one converted to islam

and yes i do struggle to understand that choice but it is their choice and one i respect

Is this really a big part of your life? I'd be interested to know where you're finding all these groups of women in burkas. I live in an area that's 45% Muslim according to the last census, and I probably only see someone with a full face covering (niqab - where only the eyes are exposed) once or twice a week, if that, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone with their eyes covered too (which is what a burka is).

Addictedtocoffee- Jimmy - you do understand that can be more than the reasons you know or want to acknowledge

And what exactly would those reasons be? Genuine question.