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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

999 replies

caroleharolde · 23/01/2014 23:20

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

OP posts:
Fancyashandy · 24/01/2014 12:38

Nancy - Google burkha and see if that is what you saw - or did you mean niqab?

Nancy66 · 24/01/2014 12:39

No, it was the burqa - complete coverage, no eye space

SauceForTheGander · 24/01/2014 12:40

There are loads of burqa wearers in London.

mousmous · 24/01/2014 12:44

actally there is a lot of nit-picking going on.
I don't care what the fully veiled face covering dress is called
but in london you can see quite often incertain areas women and men? dressed head to toe in fabric that only leaves a slit, sometimes a mesh, for the eyes.

TheDietStartsTomorrow · 24/01/2014 12:52

How sad that you feel threatened by another woman excercising her right to dress as she please without harming anyone else.

JimmyChooChoo · 24/01/2014 12:53

Countries where the Burqa is commonly worn also have higher rates of domestic violence. In Afghanistan 87 percent of women reported experiencing domestic violence. In Pakistan that number goes as high as 90 percent. Domestic violence is also a major problem in Saudi Arabia.
In cases of domestic abuse, the Burqa doesn’t just isolate the woman, it also covers up evidence of the abuse. It gives the abuser the freedom to brutalize his partner without worrying that anyone will even notice.

JimmyChooChoo · 24/01/2014 12:54

Countries where the Burqa is in wide use, have low rates of female civic participation. In Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to vote. In parts of Pakistan, women are not allowed to vote as well. In Afghanistan women were shunted into female only polling stations, or forced to vote by proxy through a male family member.

Busyoldfool · 24/01/2014 12:56

Agree in London. Can't comment on anywhere else but I was in the Knightsbridge/ Belgravia area yesterday and there were a lot of women wearing a full burkha and many also wearing niqab. Groups of 8-10 women clustering on the street near Harrods, the Jumeirah hotel, the designer shops in the little streets behind Sloane Street

I think there are enough people who say that they have seen them for those who haven't to believe them

JimmyChooChoo · 24/01/2014 12:57

In 2003 a French survey found that 77 percent of girls who wore the Hijab did so because of threats. Women in the Muslim world have been punished by having acid thrown in their faces for not complying with similar demands. There is no way to break through this climate of coercion except by giving women and girls immunity from such demands by banning the source of it.

MomsStiffler · 24/01/2014 12:58

How sad that you feel threatened by another woman excercising her right to dress as she please without harming anyone else.

How sad that you can't understand why it might be unnerving to some people..... enough with the PA bullshit

Fancyashandy · 24/01/2014 12:58

Yes, as a women's issue I do have a problem with how women are generally treated in these countries and often their lack of rights. I still think in a democratic and tolerant country women should be allowed to dress as they please. TBH, I often find scantily clad women and the whole thing of page 3 more offensive than a women who chooses to wear a niqab.

Nancy66 · 24/01/2014 13:03

If I honestly believed that underneath every burqa was a strong, independent woman exercising her right to dress as she pleased - then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

FreudiansSlipper · 24/01/2014 13:03

ok i haven't though i do see more and more women wearing a niqab

we know women suffer terribly in many countries they do not have the freedom or laws that protect them that they do here

still that does not answer why a woman should not be able choose to wear one if she wishes too, she represent herself not all muslim women

a burka or niqab may hide bruises but those who are subjected to violence are likely to cover them no matter what clothes they are either expected to or choose to wear because of the shame they feel

YouTheCat · 24/01/2014 13:05

Nancy, would you have a problem with a woman in a little skirt and high heels, wearing a tonne of make up?

CoteDAzur · 24/01/2014 13:06

"Jews have come from all over the middle East/Med/Africa. Only the most orthodox only marry within their religion. What you have said is incredibly ignorant."

Read below to see with whom ignorance lies Smile

Jews originally come from the Middle East. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews Genetic studies on Jews]] has shown that they are overwhelmingly Middle Eastern. Despite the migrations, for example Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews have been shown to be very similar genetically, although they have obviously been separated for a very long time. Same for North African Jews, who test genetically very close to European Jews. From the link above, also note that:

"The scientists found that the Jewish populations of North Africa became genetically distinct over time, with those of each country carrying their own DNA signatures. That suggests they mostly married within their own religious and cultural group said Ostrer. "They lived in ghettos," he said, "so their mobility was quite restricted, and by marrying each other they became as closely related as first cousins once removed." (note how not "only the most orthodox" marry other Jews)

It is possible to genetically distinguish Jews in a European population. See study here, aptly called "A genome-wide genetic signature of Jewish ancestry perfectly separates individuals with and without full Jewish ancestry in a large random sample of European Americans".

I hope that helps Smile

Needless to say, there is no ethnic connection between say black African Muslims and white Turks with green/blue eyes whose ancestors came from Central Asia. You cannot possibly compare Jews which are an ethnic as well as religious group who have mostly married among themselves and have had relatively few conversions and Muslims (or Christians) whose ethnic heritages are from all over the world and many of whom have been converts in conquered lands etc.

Nancy66 · 24/01/2014 13:06

You - I might think she looked a mess but it wouldn't disturb me in the same way, no.

natwebb79 · 24/01/2014 13:06

I haven't read the full 16 pages but I think that IF a women CHOOSES through free will to wear a burka then good luck to her. Having just read 'A Thousand Splendid Suns' and discovered the reasons why SOME women are MADE to wear one, I do feel a little uncomfortable at times when I see one as I cannot know whether they have chosen to or not.

JimmyChooChoo · 24/01/2014 13:07

What type of clothing could cover extreme facial injuries/bruising/ if she is not wearing a burqa

natwebb79 · 24/01/2014 13:07

Sorry woman, not women!

CoteDAzur · 24/01/2014 13:08

"a strong, independent woman exercising her right to dress as she pleased"

I would like to be one of those and wear a tutu to work or go to a symphonic orchestra concert in my bikini.

redshifter · 24/01/2014 13:10

This previous posters comment could be considered racist - every random froggie who ways to cop a feel, invade my personal space and ask sleezy questions. but I can't see how the OP is racist.

if people aren't willing to even try they have to understand that it does look a little bit racist

HOW? Women off all different races wear the niqab but it can be difficult to tell there race when they are covered anyway.

I work closely with 5 moslems daily and I know them quite well. 2 are Nigerians, 1 is Malaysian, 1 is white British and 1is white Irish. All of them wear 'western' clothes except the Irish lady who wears a headscarf.

I also work with a non moslem Iranian and a christian from Pakistan who wears salwar kameez.

To classify Islam as a race is just ridiculous.

I often criticise ideologies on MN both political and religious. I am criticising an ideology or philosophy that I disagree with, not a race.
I went on march against the Pope a few years back and posted some views that many catholics find offensive. The same people on MN that applauded me and agreed with me called me racist at a later date when I dared to make a slight criticism of Islam. It is so very frustrating.

My Iranian colleague also posts on MN and also gets called racist if she states that she doesn't like the niqab. She finds it even more maddening than I do.

FreudiansSlipper · 24/01/2014 13:12

what i am wearing today legginings and a long sleeved top

are you suggesting that women here who are beaten up on a daily basis go around showing their bruising

dv happens in all societies, rates tend to be higher in poorer countries and those where women have less rights

but that is getting away from the argument should women have a choice in what they choose to wear

YouTheCat · 24/01/2014 13:12

Cote, do a few genetic tests and you'd find that most of us originate from the same few places.

Muslims also originate from the same few places, historically.

Nancy, but you have no idea if that woman chose to wear that skirt and those heels. I was that woman. I'd rather have been in a jeans and jumper but my ex husband insisted that I dress up in uncomfortable clothes and shoes. There is the potential for abuse from men across all religions/cultures. And therefore I'm not going to pity someone for wearing a veil/scarf or whatever and assume it hasn't been her own choice.

weirdthing · 24/01/2014 13:13

There is no such thing as 'choice' when made in a patriarchal culture.

JimmyChooChoo · 24/01/2014 13:16

Well I guess they still have to carry on with everyday life which means their bruises would be seen obviously!

However women in burqas can disguise the facial injuries

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