aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

Fantissue and Nigella I don't think people go round grinning at strangers. The person who brought it up was referring to fellow schoolgate mums.

Personally speaking, I have Muslim neighbours I'd love to get to know better. Mother doesn't cover up, smiles, chats and makes legendary samosas at Eid which are shared round the neighbourhood

Her daughters wear niqab, and it's hard to tell whether they're friendly because they never say hello to us first, and obviously we never see them smile. We're in London but this is a very friendly street. People want to be smiley and friendly, but that's hard when someone appears to be actively taking steps to separate themselves not only from the local community but even their own family.

of coures Irish people were subjected to prejudice but the poster who claimed that on 'hearing her accent people would move away from her on the tube, check if she was carrying a rucksack and check where she got off' may not have been well at that time if that was her perception.

The longer we wait the more paralysed by political correctness we will become, and the Muslim entitlement will increase. The Muslims who moved to secular France, for example, cannot accept the laws and chose to riot during the summer in a hair-trigger response to a woman being fined for illegally covering her face with a niqab and concealing her identity.

This sort of tribal Muslim behaviour is not surprising and should only strengthen our resolve, because this is one area where the West can stop an aspect of Islamisation and prevent this degrading practice from happening to women.

I personally dislike the burkha and niqab but I believe in the freedom to choose what to wear in this country so I defend the right of women to wear those items.

I dislike hotpants and leggings without long tops too.

And I feel really uncomfortable when lads wear those really short shorts in the gym, I don't know where to look!

But each to their own, we don't have a fashion police here, just freedom which is better than most of us appreciate.

Youthecat Not in the 90s, no, as the poster claimed, even in my hometown which had more reason than most to feel aggrieved and watchful. That was my point.

Of course I'm aware of anti-Irish prejudice historically.

I say hello to lots of strangers, but I think there may be an element of north/south thing there too.

Baies74 - just say hello to the lady next time you see her. I moved next door to a Muslim family (women dressed traditional with hijab and kalware seemez (sp?). Did a feel a little awkward not knowing if they wanted to talk to me (shamed to say I wasn't even sure if they would speak English) - so I just said hallo one day as they were gardening and turns out they were chatter boxes and couldn't get them to shut up. We are still friends many years later.

are they really women? honest question

I did have a Muslim family living next door to me, the wife was more uncovered than I ever am in a strappy vest top in the summer. She was very friendly.

why would you think they may not be?

Can I ask you (op) a couple of questions?

You say you feel uncomfortable because you cant see their identity. But they are strangers to you? So assume they were in jeans and jumper, all you would see would be a man or woman? Youd know absolutely nothing more about them, right? So why is it so important to you to know if the stranger you pass in the street is a man or woman? Or is there something else you think you would be able to see and if so, what is it?

What a daft question nigellasdealer

because of their hands

how is it 'daft' - it is a perfectly reasonable suspicion - they have v big lumpy hands and/or gloves on if you can be bothered to look before dismissing me in 'shaming' language

what about their hands

do you go around looking at peoples hands

There are Quranic verses regarding female attire and the importance of dressing modestly, such as verses 24:31 and 33:59: “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused.”

There is no compelling religious reason why women should keep their faces covered, which instead highlights Islamic cultural issues regarding oppression and whether women are being forced into wearing them. Even if burqas/niqabs are worn through free choice they are still degrading, incompatible with Western society, a symbol of ‘Islamisation’ and indeed an embarrassment to humanity itself.

but if a woman is making a choice for whatever reason to wear a niqab isn't telling her that she is wrong a violation of her right to choose how to dress

I think OP has a reasonable point. It wasn't just the heavy breathing that made Darth Vader seem sinister, the black dress and mask helped, and these women are dressed similarly. If it's not something you've got used to in daily life it may well be unnerving.

If you needed to ask for directions, or the time, would you ask somebody in a burka or would you walk past and ask somebody else not wearing a burka?

I have asked someone in a niqab for directions, they stood there silently without replying. I'm not sure if there is a religious/cultural prohibition on women talking to strange men in public, but it seems plausible.

I've seen men in full female clothes and the walk gives them away.

Yes, I once heard that human anatomy requires that either hips or shoulders roll when we walk, and that women usually roll hips and men shoulders, so the sexes do walk differently.

do you go around looking at peoples hands
umm no not really, I mean i might notice anything about a person, but i was talking about these pictures in particular

I don't feel threatened by women in burkas or similar dress, but I do always wonder if they have freely chosen to wear it. Maybe this is wrong of me but I feel that it is not something I would choose.

I have read all the posts on this thread and to say the very least am disgusted at some posts that shout Racism etc and feel it necessary to be so rude telling the OP to FO.

I too feel wary of people who cover their faces for whatever reason they choose. I respect their choice but also feel that respect is a 2 way street which is too many times ignored.

OP I think YANBU, maybe if you had used the word wary or cautious instead of threatened some of the replies would have been more understanding of what you were trying to say.

What's the rational explanation to your fear? Do you think that they are going to harm you in someway? Is it related to 9/11? Bad previous experiences? Media portryls daily mail prejudice?

It's ok to be frightend of things, people have irrational fears of bugs me,heights, dogs etc. But when it is a person (or a group of people) then you really should work to overcome that irrational fear, not only for the good of yourself, but society as a whole. I think the fear of the unkown is a breeding ground for prejuidice, and that is probably why some people have reacted so strongly to what you have said, it does come across quite offensive. I imagine you would be fuming if you heard someone saying that they were scared and offended by women showing any skin in public, and what you are saying is the same difference.

I think what france did was wrong, it was oppressive, i know some people think that the Burkha is oppressive itself- it comes across that way in our culture- but it is up to the indvidual. Theres a fine line between removing oppression, and creating a new, more dangerous oppression, and i think that the policy in France crossed that boundary. In my mind there was no rational explanation for it.

YouTheCat's comment about women wearing burkas still being human beings is very apt.

I'm Muslim, I've been on lots of these threads and some of the most anti-burka on here delight in being unpleasant to Muslim women on Mumsnet, it's quite clear they view us as subhuman, so they can stick their "concern" for Muslim women, none of us are fooled.

well i have read the OP very closely and from that close reading and analysis of the syntax and grammar would surmise that the OP might well come from a monocultural country and that her reaction is simply 'fear of the unknown' but not 'racism'

Why are niqabs and burkas all the same dark colours, usually black or blue? You never see a pretty floral print or something Cath Kidstony.