aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

Cote, you do know that Jews can be black skinned, blue eyed blonde white skinned to the more stereotypical dark hair darker sinned more middle Eastern look.

Wish folk would use the correct terminology. Every time someone says burkha I assume they mean the total covering blue sheet a al Afghanistan.

Fantissue, I take your point regarding the race issue, but as many Muslims these days are white British (including me) it is not clear cut. Oddly, once you convert to Islam, people seem to assume you have almost joined a different race, which is rubbish.
Regarding what you say about the views expressed on here being legally discrimination, is that really the case? Would that not involve actually treating someone in a negative way? I'd be interested if you know the wording of the act, as I didn't know that expressing a view in a conversational way was racist (genuinely interested, not trying to sound snotty). For example, I've expressed concerns about the area I live in having become litter strewn among other things since a lot of Romanian people moved here - but I would never treat an individual Romanian in a negative way because of that perception.

I feel it's quite important that people can express their views and concerns, as it opens up dialogue and may ultimately increase understanding between races, cultures and religions. I witnessed a middle aged white man having a conversation with a lady in niqab (which I think is what most people on here are referring to as a burka? Burkas are those big blue things with grids over the eyes, I've never seen one here) at a mosque open day. Talking with her completely changed his views on the matter and he couldn't thank her enough for the opportunity. If people are scared to speak, how can that happen?
The OP worded her post in a respectful way I thought, so can't see what is offensive about that.

But Fantissue, if someone's face and body is not just covered but shrouded in a deliberately shapeless voluminous garment, how many signals are there for you to read, whether friendly or otherwise?

I'm actually not great at reading body language (living in London and being jostled daily by the sheer cram of people does that to you). But I'm good at reading faces. I just don't know whether I'd be able to read someone's eyes alone with accuracy.

I'd want to be friendly but how can you be when there's such a great danger that you'd misread the signs?

I think the reasoning behind the burqa/niqab is ridiculous and they also look ridiculous too.

For a woman to actually believe that they must cover themselves from head to toe to stop a man lusting after them translates to me that they must believe women rape victims are at fault, that men should not be held responsible for their actions and that they are a man's property. I feel pity for them actually and think they are totally the opposite of 'empowered'.

That is my opinion. I am entitled to it. Call me whatever you want .

baies 74 I live in London and am jostled daily but it's not made me immune to the subtleties of body language. Why try to blame something you're not very good at on other people? Just accept it's not your strong point. Even if someone wears a shapeless garment you can still see their hands, posture, etc.

You say you're scared to misread the signs - I think you'll find that those who wear these garments are well aware of the risks and even experience them themselves when they talk to others who dress alike - they WILL be understanding of you and appreciate that you're actually treating them just like anybody else.

Burkhas are worn mainly in Afghanistan / sometimes northern tribal areas of Pakistan and are the full face covering items. They are traditionally blue.

The Niqab is where a woman covers everything except her eyes, most often it seems to be black. Sometimes the woman might wear sunglasses or a veil over her eyes as well.

Have you been to some countries where covering up to a degree is expected - the level of harrasment can be off the wall. Can totally understand why women might cover up to protect themselves and try and be invisible.

Shandy It's obviously frustrating for you that people are conflating the burqa and niqab and we discussed the differences upthread.

They both make some people feel uneasy and perhaps that's why they're not distinguishing between them? I can assure you I see both daily and you're very welcome to come out with me and see them too.

The interesting thing to me is that no-one on this thread so far has expressed any reservations (quite rightly, IMO) about the hijab/headscarf. If you can see someone's face, there's nothing unsettling about religious signifiers (unless you're a UKIP/EDL/BNP type fucktard).

OK so i think most of us are talking about the niqab then

I just think that if people are going to discuss the subject and how it makes them feel - then they should use the correct terminology and make sure everyone is on the same page as to what is actually being discussed.

Something rather disingenuous about your posts, Fantissue

I can't be the only one bad at reading facial/body language if so many people seem to find any kind of shroud disconcerting.

Well I'm not a troll and I think my DP has reason to believe I'm not racist.

But l I don't like the burqa. I find it difficult to respond in an open, friendly manner when I can't see a person's face to read their expression. And I do feel sorry for a woman who is told, or voluntarily believes, that they need to hide themselves away.

Sorry, but there it is. I don't like it.

I smiled at a muslim woman all covered up a few days ago I could only tell she smiled back because of her eyes but it does sometimes feel they want to be invisible.

exactly baies, i dont think any reasonable person would have a problem with the headscarf, so objecting to the niqab/burka is NOT 'racism'.

Yes, but several folk have snootily pulled me up when I say I have never seen a burkha here - when they are actually talking about the niqab which is different.

Can I also say to whoever it was who pulled the Irish argument, I grew up in Warrington and remember the day the two little boys were blown up clear as day.

Strange, then, that I don't recall anyone treating the Irish with the degree of prejudice that seems to confront Muslims today.

I think you'll find a lot of people find it disconcerting based on the fact they're a little bit prejudiced.

I am willing to believe that you have a fear of being misunderstood and this puts you off, and that's perfectly reasonable but if people aren't willing to even try they have to understand that it does look a little bit racist.

also why go around grinning at people who are covered? i do not get that, unless it was someone you saw everday

Hijab is when a woman covers her head - she could wear as little as just a headscarf (with other clothes obviously!) or hijab can be where everything is covered except the face.

Baies74 - but Muslims look "forrin" where as those pesky Oirish look just like us till they open their gob and start munching on a tatter.

How miserable! I smile at lots of people. Usually they smile back.

Baies, do you really think that Irish people were not subjected to prejudice? Seriously?

Jews and Sikhs are actually classified as races here in the UK because anti religious discrimination laws didn't exist at the time. in order to protect Jews from anti semitism in law and allow Sikhs to carry their ceremonial daggers they classified them as races and added provision to the existing anti racial discrimination laws. It was just a clerical thing. There is a argument for classifying Jews as a race, as well as a religion and a culture. Most Jewish people prefer "people hood" which seems the best way to classify the unclassifable!

One of my Northern Pakistani friends made a short film starring himself and other students - the girls wore an assortment of hijab and niqab.

The main female lead wore a niqab and her character still came across well despite only seeing her eyes.

haven't read full thread.

I've never seen someone in a full burqa in the UK, not common in the areas I frequent. Seen it on holiday in Malaysia - not the locals but visiting Saudis, him in shorts and t-shirt, her covered totally except for heavily made up eyes.

I didn't feel threatened, they were just people going by. I felt deeply saddened at what religion makes people do.