to think if the letter says a voluntary contribution of £x then you don't HAVE to pay

[PMDD]

I have 3 children at the same primary school. Since coming back to school in January the school have asked me for a VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTION of £14 for DD, £7.50 for DS1 and £5.00 for DS2 (school trips linked to their term topic). They have also asked for £1 for each child for 'arts week' and they have asked for £1 for each child for this Friday's mufti, which is followed by the school valentine disco of £2.50 per child.

That is £40!!!!

Other than mufti and the school disco, which they children don't have to do (although they will be very left out if they come in school uniform), the payment is voluntary. So would I be unreasonable to say that I will give them £5 per child for all the school activities.

I would like to add that my DS1 (year 6) and DS2 (year 4) are both going on school trips in May which cost £350 and £280 respectively, which I am paying £50 a month for since Sept last year!

It is not 'sad' that some children will not be able to go on school trips. It is the waythings are and always have been. It is an awful lot of years since I went to school and there were school trips then as there are now. The situation has not changed in the last 35 years and part of having children (your choice as to how many) is the fact that they will offerred trips at school. The difference seems to be that these days parents expect that all of their children will be able to go on these trips, whether they pay for them or not.
There will always be children who have parent's who either can't pay or won't pay and there is no way IMO that this should affect any other child
from a different family.
I went on very few school trips and in the long term it did me no harm.
My DS did go on some school trips, but not all of them (and we could have afforded to pay for all of them) - it is not good for children for expect to have everything offerred them and it does no harm for this to be learned at a young age
I sound a real misery !!

LouiseAderyn "you are missing the point that it is up to parents how they spend their own money and it is not appropriate for the school to decide it for them. "

Louise, I fully agree with you. It is up to the parents to decide how they spend their own money. Parents in turn have to accept that if they do not to pay for a certain activity (i.e. school trip) then their child(ren) will not be able to participate.

PMDD Luckily your children aren't at Private school. They don't tell you the cost just add it to next terms bill!

I am quite happy for my dc to not go on all trips ( I now look at each one and decide whether I think it is of benefit to them), but sometimes the school presents it as if it is compulsory and essential. Then add the 'by the way, we expect you to pay for it' part of the letter!

I suspect LouiseAderyn that you also want your children to either go on the trip but not to have to pay or to have a full days appropriate teaching provided whilst they stay at school when the rest of the class are off on the trip.

Have you no social conscience ? Everyone must dance to your preferred tune. If insufficient people value an educational day out, no child will get to go as the cost of the bus will be too expensive.

Some people want their rights (to spend their money on only things they want to) and ignore their responsibilities as a member of the "school society".

This point seems completely lost on some people.

Don't you think the teachers have already decided whether the trip is of benefit to the children, in their professional opinion ?

They don't run trips on a whim you know.

I always try and pay a bit over if I can (money is tight for us but I trust the school to be spending it wisely) as I know some people can't. As the cost is worked out per head, if some can't afford it there's a chance they'll all miss out.

Can we not confuse curricular trips and 'jollies' a ski trip is most definitely a jolly and is not a 'voluntary contribution'. The trips that the school deem to be voluntary contributions come under the curriculum and they are not allowed to charge for them hence letters etc being very carefully worded. Our permission slips state "I enclose a donation of £what ever the amount is already filled in and give permission for my child to attend" its as close to making it compulsory as they can. Yes these trips should be funded by the school budget but quite frankly schools get nowhere near enough money to cover everything they should. If they don't get enough donations then trips get cancelled so I guess the question is how much do you value the trips

You do also realise that a school may have to make the decision to fund your child's contribution rather than arrange additional staffing cover for the few children that would be left behind and hence you are forcing them to spend money one way or another ?

I sometimes wonder if we as parents were made to pay for basic school equipment etc for a year like some other countries have to buy for the whole of their school love, some people may get more of an appreciation of how much things cost in schools.

Would be a great money saver for schools too, to update buildings/curriculum resources etc

It does get ridiculous though.

Ds is going swimming with the school. We are told swimming lessons are compulsory and part of the national curriculum, all children are expected to go. Yet we are also being asked to cough up £25 for the priviledge. Luckily I only have 1 child doing the swimming but some parents have 2 or 3 and all the children will need £25.

Again, this is an activity due to start next month and we only got the letter last Monday; how can you budget with so little notice?

Parents are expected to cough up such a lot and I'm sure the school could do more to help. Those in receipt of benefits do get some trips funded (PMDD what the school told your friend is false, she is entitled to subsidised trips if she's on benefits and in receipt of free school meals) but if you are earning just above the breadline you are expected the pay the full cost and it can be a struggle.

Some of the parents at our school have to choose which child goes on which trip because they can't afford to pay for them all.

Either the school should make these trips more affordable or, like my dd's secondary school, should allow parents to pay in stages.

I'm sure if enough parents complained the school would have to do something. How about attending the next PTA and outlining the problems these expensive trips cause? There will be parents who don't/can't pay and then the child has to stay behind and be excluded. That's not fair on the child.

Schools should strive to include every child and organise trips within the limits of parents' budgets.

It might also be an idea to set aside a small amount every week OP exclusively for school trips, even setting up a spare change savings account so you always have funds there and aren't left short when the school spring these things on you.

Life not love - Oh dear!

I paid out over 1k last year in school trips, our circumstances have now changed and I just cannot afford to pay for any more until things improve again. I will be writing to the head to make this clear and I will still expect the children to be able to take part, tbf it is a wealthy school and there are enough donations made to allow this to happen. I think as long as you keep the school informed they should not (and cannot by law) penalise your child. I just admit, I have no intention of not ever paying for the residentials, I would expect to pay in full if our situation changes enough to allow me to do that either before or shortly afterwards.

Don't most schools have a fund raising arm to help pay towards the costs of trips, etc? Ours paid for a Christmas panto but they don't pay for these curriculum based trips unfortunately. They must have a bloody fortune too as they earn tens of thousands from the popular scarecrow trail they put on every year.

Rhubarb - I'd imagine that £25 is for the coach.

The people we should be getting cross with isn't schools but governments that slash schools' budgets.

Ptas can be a huge help but honestly, schools are not over charging parents in order to pay for the Christmas staff do!

As an aside, if you have real concerns about the cost of a trip and believe the school at over charging, you are entitled to see a breakdown of the costs. You'd be boggled at the cost of a coach though.

DC1 went swimming for 3 years in a row. Each year I paid the requested monies. The final 2 years all dc1 did was "train" and at the swimming teacher's request, assist other children in the class with demonstrating stuff like treading water and arm/leg movements for different styles.

I could have assessed that given dc1's proficiency and club competition level ability that they should not bother going each week and I would save the money as I'm already paying club and insurance fees each month/year for them. I could have saved a lot of money.

There's more to the weekly event than just swimming though....... plus the cost of the swimming lessons goes up for the school and potentially other parents if passed on, for each parent who thinks only of themselves. Sometimes people need to have a social conscience and think of the effect of my decisions on others.

In our school, trips are a massive sore point amongst the parents that do pay.

Over the years we have learned which parents fall into which groups and whether right or wrong both the parents and children get labelled. There is an open school policy 15 minutes before school starts so has been easy for people to work it out.

I also have 3 in primary and school trips are typically £17.50 each so are very expensive. I pay though as would not want my children put in this situation.

Agree, the solution on both sides is better communication.

Some schools are forever springing things on parents - not just school trips and activities that aren't always justified, but also last minute dress up days and badly thought out PTA events.

On the other hand, school trips and e.g. school swimming lessons are often more economical than organising something by yourself (£25 seems quite cheap for swimming lessons + transport) and b) enable children to do something that isn't dependent on their parents organising it and c) are an educational tool (although I think sometimes the only thing children remember is that somebody was sick in the back of the coach…),

The problem is that money is finite and whether you have 1 or 20 children, if you don't have £25 you don't have £25. There are many reasons why you might not have £25 and they don't all revolve around spending it on sweets.

little, I have not decided (without asking the people expected to pay for it) to take children out of the school environment for the day. If they make that choice, then yes, I do expect them to continue to educate the children not attending, because they are altering the 'rules'.

If I decided to keep my child home for the day, the school would rightly object, because children are supposed to be in school,being educated. Therefore, I expect the school to be teaching my child on every day that they have them in school.

As for whether the trip is valuable, that rather depends. If it means a child who is struggling in maths, misses double maths on that day, then I would argue that their time might be more wisely spent sticking to the normal curriculum. Otoh, the trip might be of enormous value to someone who is planning to take that particular subject for GCSE. Which is why attendance ought to be a genuine choice for the child/family.

And not all trips are valuable - some from my child's school involved trips to Maccy Ds. Not ideal for my ds who gets very travel sick on coaches at the best of times. Therefore, I opted out and didn't consider that to be selfish. My child would be better off having his normal timetabled day. I remember some, from my own school days, that involved 5 minutes in a museum and an afternoon on Oxford Street!

It would help massively if the schools gave a breakdown of the costs to the parents along with the letter requesting monies.

More notice would be good, so that parents can budget (I'm assuming trips take some organising so surely schools can let parents know more than 2 weeks in advance?).

Parents should be given the option to pay in instalments.

On the letters a line could also be inserted encouraging parents who may struggle to pay, to visit the office and see what can be done.

Schools should also be more open about the subsidies they get for children who have free school meals as some parents aren't aware of it.

Parents could also be asked for donations between say £30 - £25 with £25 covering the cost of sending their child and if any can afford it, an extra £5 to help with the costs of those who are struggling to pay. I'd be more than happy to contribute towards the cost of another child if I knew that it was needed.

If they get more than enough funds, schools could do a trip fund pot, so that if parents say they are struggling, the school can offer to fund some or all of the cost from this pot.

There are solutions available if the schools are willing to implement them.

I had to keep my twins at school because I couldn't afford a school trip once. it was actually part of the national curriculum, but it came hot on the heels of about three other trips that year, plus - like you I was due to pay out hundreds in a trip to the isle of wight with school - for twins.

I could have applied to the 'hardship fund' but I was too proud and embarrassed.

the school AFTER called me in - the head teacher wanted a word. told me it was part of the curriculum and I could have applied to the hardship fund

I told her it was a disgusting name for a fund to expect parents to apply to, I asked that she consider different ways of applying the fund or naming the fund. she refused.

www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/a005562/swimming

You do realise little purple that you don't have the right to withdraw your child from school swimming. That's the point if a trip is curricular then it is compulsory that is why schools can only ask for donations.

www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/a005562/swimming
Clickable link

I meant to add that I consider my responsibility as a member of the 'school society', is to send my children to school on time, dressed in appropriate uniform and with PE kits/cooking ingredients etc. To ensure that they do homework on time and are polite and respectful to staff.

It does not include giving the school the right to determine the best use of my money.

Well yes, let's patronise the parents and rub their noses in their own poverty before then permitting them some money for the trip, just so they know exactly where they stand. Which is on the bottom rung of the ladder.

If you've never applied for any kind of help before, you have no idea how humiliating it is. When I went to the interview for HB after I lost my job at the school, I cried when I came out. I felt so low and judged by the woman sat opposite me.

I should imagine it's 10 times worse now that the government and media have decided to target poor people and blame them for all the world's ills. Haven't the poor been blamed for the cold yet? We know the rain is the fault of the homosexuals so surely cold winters are the fault of the poor?