to think if the letter says a voluntary contribution of £x then you don't HAVE to pay

[PMDD]

I have 3 children at the same primary school. Since coming back to school in January the school have asked me for a VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTION of £14 for DD, £7.50 for DS1 and £5.00 for DS2 (school trips linked to their term topic). They have also asked for £1 for each child for 'arts week' and they have asked for £1 for each child for this Friday's mufti, which is followed by the school valentine disco of £2.50 per child.

That is £40!!!!

Other than mufti and the school disco, which they children don't have to do (although they will be very left out if they come in school uniform), the payment is voluntary. So would I be unreasonable to say that I will give them £5 per child for all the school activities.

I would like to add that my DS1 (year 6) and DS2 (year 4) are both going on school trips in May which cost £350 and £280 respectively, which I am paying £50 a month for since Sept last year!

Yes YABU. Should have though about the costs of having children (a lot!) before having three of them!

I've HAD to go and ask the school for some assistance to pay for DS1's Y7 camping trip this year. The cost of it 4 years ago when DD went was £80. I made up a budget for £100, to allow for costs having risen. When I got the letter...the cost was £210.

There was just NO WAY I could find that extra £110 when I have not long moved house (at short notice, just 9 days from viewing house to moving in, got to love Social Housing...) necessitating an entire new uniform for DS2, then an entire set for DS1 as he was stating Secondary, plus the 'optional' uniform that actually ISN'T optional if your DC wants to fit in for DS3's preschool (they didn't have bloody uniforms when my older 3 went, so that had passed me by and I hadn't budgeted for it), then ANOTHER entire set for DD as she had grown 2 full inches, despite being in Y11 (was hoping not to have to buy more uniform for her as she'd had a set in the Easter of Y10).

The school have used the Pupil Premium money to cover the remaining £110 of the residential trip as they can see that I have made an effort to budget for, and cover the cost of as much as I possibly can, plus the equipment needed to be taken with them.

What the school CAN'T do is cover the entire cost.

I can't understand those who don't make some attempt to budget for additional costs for school. Some, like a cost rise for the exact same trip, of an extra £130 in just four years, are unforseeable when you have budgeted for a £20 increase.

I still have other associated costs to pay for the other DC's too, so it's not as if I don't try to pay. I'm now saving up for DS2's Y6 residential. He has more than a year before he goes, and all I've got is an estimate of costs, but I will save as much as I can for it, at £3 a week!

And I have just paid £5 for Y5 DS2's trip to a sewage works (!) tomorrow. It is actually connected to their topics - they are learning about enzymes and how water is cleaned before being released back into the environment in science.

I see that as important for his education. Plus I'm thankful to the new school that the standard of teaching is far better than the old one - a 6 sub level jump in Maths in 13 weeks and the difference between learning things like the above in science, and states of matter, which the old school don't cover even in Y6, and £5 seems a small cost to subsidise a trip that helps his education.

Especially as I can guarantee that the old school would have charged £13 for the same sort of trip!

CouthyMow - I am budgeting for school trips. I am paying off £50/month for the 2 boys' May residential trips. These are optional, but if they don't go they will be one of a very small few and will feel outcast. The children come back after the trip and talk about all the things they did. I don't want my sons to miss out.

However, January is a month when money is tight and they are asking for £40 in total. If I don't 'do' mufti and the school disco (which I won't be doing the disco) it will be nearer to £30. This is still a lot to find.

But they aren't asking for £40 for one trip. The only reason you are being asked to pay that much is because you have three children.

Do you think that the school should only be offering one year group at a time a trip so that you don't have to pay for all of your children at the same time or something?

What about other families that only have one or two children? Do you think they should miss out on trips because you can't afford to pay for trips for all the children you chose to have?

The families with one child aren't being asked for £40 are they? So it's a bit unfair to blame the school for asking for £40 when they aren't. They are just providing trips, as OFSTED expects them to.

Were you not aware that there was going to be a residential trip? I started saving towards the cost I estimated of the residential trip for DS1 almost a year in advance.

When DS2 started at the new Primary, the first thing I asked was what year group does the residential trip, and could they give me an estimated cost.

I'm also having to budget for DD's Y11 leaver's prom in July. And for a girl, that ISN'T cheap, and is a one-off event that cannot be 'replaced' if she doesn't go, and she wants to fit in with hair, make up, shoes, dress. And they're holding it at some out of the way effing golf club rather than the footy stadium as in previous years, so I now have to add transport there and back to my budget as I don't drive.

if you have lots of DC's, you need to be aware of upcoming trips, especially more expensive ones.

I'm on a limited budget, and except for the more-than doubling cost of DS1's residential trip, I manage to budget appropriately for trips.

Yes, it's crap that they've added so many trips in January, and I WOULD complain to the school about that, but I would come to some payment agreement with the school about the smaller trips.

Are your 2 DC's that are going on the residential trip twins? That's the only reason I can see for them both going at once. If not, then surely the younger one gets told that they can go next year?

I can see it would be an issue if you have twins, double the costs is a bit hard to cover if they are the same age.

I use the Child Benefit to cover school trips - because to me, that's what the Child Benefit is for, to benefit the child. I don't include it in my ordinary budgeting. For 4 DC's, that gives me £242 a month to split between shoes, clothing, uniform, activity costs, school trips, and anything else that benefits the Child. I don't see it as 'my money' or part of my household budget.

That's what my Income Support and CTC is for!

I seem to be unusual in this, amongst the people I know on benefits though. I always did that even when in low paid work though.

To me, the name of the benefit is pretty self explanatory as to what it's meant to be used for, for the benefit of the Child.

But surely if it's a lot of money to find in January, it's the same for many of the other parents?

You don't have to pay, of course not.

But then you have to be prepared to accept that 20 other parents, in the same situation, also won't pay. And then the trip is cancelled.

I don't understand how anybody can say "oh it's too much money this month and it's voluntary so I won't pay" and still think it's ok to expect their child to actually go on the trip.

If you can't afford it, don't go. It's that simple, isn't it?

Couthy the prom is a amazing expense, isn't it?

I've had a seperate savings account for the last year for DDs prom this July. I can't afford to pay for dress, shoes, bag, hair, tickets, leavers photo book, transport all in one go. The cost is frightening.

There have been quite a few trips, especially now the older 2 are in secondary that we cannot afford. They seem to love weeks in Spain and New York and all over the bloody place at this school. I set a budget at the beginning of summer and set up a standing order from my wages to that account. It covers trip for 3 DCs and will increase in July as ds2 has a residential next may which is more expensive.

If the money isn't there (think over a thousand pounds for each teenage DC for a drama trip to New York-EACH) then they cannot go.
However "voluntary" the cost is, I don't expect them to go if I haven't paid

On the odd occasion that everybody's trips happen and need paying for all at once I've always approached the school and asked to pay in instalments, they've always been happy to take the money however we can give it. Having said that we don't do the residentials as the DC's aren't interested at the moment (in DS's words, he spends enough time with his teachers in school, why would he want to spend any time with them out of school? )
Couthy the prom sounds like hard work!! Thank God our first prom will be DS's, there can't be that much expense involved for a boy but maybe I should start saving for the DD's proms now!

I don't believe that schools should organise trips they don't have the budget for, in the expectation that parents can pay for it.

I resent other people telling me how to spend my money - it is my job to choose activities for my dc that I consider to be important and then to allocate the money from my budget to pay for them. It is not for the school to make decisions and then expect me to finance it. I would like to be asked rather than told!

I also think that while a whole day is being taken up on a trip that is for one subject, my dc are missing out on the scheduled lessons that they should have had that day and that may have been of greater value.

With that in mind, I have decided to only pay for trips that I think are valuable.

I also resent the guilt tripping that goes on - the whole idea that if a trip is cancelled it is the fault of those families who haven't paid. No, it is the school's fault for spending other people's money for them without consultation!

Ironically, I think lots of schools do school trips because of pressure from parents.

I don't believe that schools should organise trips they don't have the budget for, in the expectation that parents can pay for it

There isn't a budget for school trips!!

I think it is disgusting that some children end up missing out, its not their fault the school ask for money for things.
However, mine went to a couple of VA schools and I'm not sure but doesn't that mean on accepting a place you agree to voluntary aid the school. So you do pay for everything having already accepted that you will? That was the impression I was under.

Then maybe they should send out a letter asking parents if they would be interested in a trip to X location and would they commit to spending £ X on financing it. If enough parents send back an agreement and the money, then organise it.

In addition, the school should ensure that the school day still has value for those children whose parents have elected not to take part, rather than just babysitting them and filling in time until the others return.

I think this would be more fair than the current system of badgering kids whose parents haven't sent in money for various activities and it would make parents feel less hassled and in control of their own budget fir these things.

If it's a voluntary contribution it can be giftaided, I'd have thought. That will save 20-40% for many parents.

I am about these charges. DD1 is in P1 and I am on the parent council. We fundraise, access local grant funding and beg/borrow and call in favours from parents and locals. Our kids do very well out of this with DH doing 3 afternoons of film making with the older classes, other parents doing sewing, cooking, crafts and sport, materials from B&Q for craft fundraising and free haggis from the local butchers for the Burns Day celebration. Now you will have guessed that I'm in Scotland but that should make no difference. The kids are also going on a cinema trip and for pizza afterwards - all fully funded.

Therefore it is all about better communication.

You can't gift aid something if you get something substantial in return.

Part of the reason that trips can cost so much is the unbelievable cost of coach companies.

Schools cannot make a profit on trips.

They cannot make patents pay more incase % off patents don't pay.

They legally have to use the word voluntary on education related trips. They don't do it too be deceptive, they have no choice.

There is no budget for school trips. There is a pupil premium related to fsm % but this should be used in order to benefit fsm childrens whole education. It may be needed for other things other than trips.

I do think schools can be thoughtless in the amount of time they give parents to pay/the amount of requests arty one time but do be proactive and point this out to them. It may just be an oversight and something that can be amended.

Lastly, children cost money. The more you have the more they cost. You couldn't book a holiday, go on a day trip and say you don't want to pay for all your family as there's lots of you so you want to pay less, unfortunately.

I do think it would be ideal for schools to have this talk with parents when their children start school so parents
could know the information and not be so suspicious of a school's motives. It would also give them the idea to start putting £s away whenever possible to save as much as possible in advance.

Excuse the typos, toddler and baby wiggling on me. :)

I understood that it is was a day trip/ curriculum item then it was voluntary and maybe there is a couple of pounds added to the actual cost per child to cover those who are unable to pay. I don't mind this as we are fortunate not to have to worry. However I think residential trips should be available and if you can't/won't pay and are not on FSM then you do not go. At my kids school several kids do not go for lots of reasons not all financial so no would know your child cannot go for financial reasons. When I was little I could not go on any trips as my mum was on her own and there was no pupil premium then. It was just what it is and unfortunately kids need to learn that if you don't have the money you can't have it. It is a tough lesson but rarely any child in the state system will be able to attend all trips. Skiing etc are out of most peoples budget.

Everything I've read on this thread since my post earlier, coupled with a few searches on other posts made by contributors to the thread, convinces me even more that the vast majority of the problem is the choices people have made in respect of how they spend their money or how they fail to appreciate that certain decisions they make can have life changing financial consequences far into the future.

If you have 3 or 4 children, the cost per child is the same as for everyone else, it's just that you chose to apply a larger multiplying factor to that cost than parents of 1 or 2 child families.

If you buy/take on pets it costs you money for the life of each and every pet.

If you buy more expensive than bog standard shoes/boots/handbags/gadgets other luxury items that's less money you have available for your making your child's school years experience more varied/fun.

If you don't restrain yourself with Christmas/Birthday/Holiday spending you'll find it harder to rustle up the amounts needed each term (and as in my earlier post, there's always something funds are required for every term, it shouldn't come as a huge surprise to be asked for a bit of "extras" funding every term).

The school and teachers would have a far easier life not bothering with trips, risk assessments, administration and organisation etc. but IMHO the children would be short-changed as far as their learning experience is concerned. The school are doing their bit, all they're asking is that as a parent you value the learning experience being offered to your children and budget for the little extras from time to time.

Less moaning and more budgeting (well in advance) for £x per child per term.

The "voluntary" get out clause is for people who already exist on the bare minimum with very very little disposable income after all essentials have been covered, for whom a new winter coat/boots when their existing one(s) are falling to bits is a major cause of financial pressure. It's not intended for people who "know their rights - we cant be made to pay when the letter says it's voluntary" but who will be having a foreign holiday this year or do the school run with their (possibly pedigree) dog or have the latest iPhone or swing a designer hand bag from the crook of their arm/wear clothes that definitely weren't cheap/wear full make-up all the time (cosmetics and remover are non essential luxury items) etc.

Could you explain to your cubs/brownies leaders? If you're really struggling they might be able to reduce the subs? Ours always tell people not to leave themselves short.

little , you are missing the point that it is up to parents how they spend their own money and it is not appropriate for the school to decide it for them.

Some families value their family holiday more than they value school trips which are not always especially educationally enriching. Or they might deem that their dc gets more value fron the hobby the oarents finance outside of school. The point is, it should be their choice.