AIBU to sleep train my 7mo baby because of my MH?

[mrsemiliasmyth]

DD2 is 7months old. As a tiny baby she slept well, then the bloodyHV persuaded me she should be waking to feed at night and I like a look started waking her at 4am to feed her. I suffer from PTSD from my first delivery and depression which has recently worsened after DD2's arrival so getting enough sleep was just about keeping me sane.

The past few months her sleep has got worse, and worse and worse, she is more and more miserable and I have been getting close to losing the plot in a big way. I am so tired I can't string a sentence together, my efforts to play with both DC (older DD has learning delays) during the day have now descended into flinging open the doors of the playroom and literally letting them play with anything.

Friday night was bad like so so bad, then last night was worse. I had to cancel work today because I felt sick through tiredness (started back 3 weeks ago). I've done every trick in the book re settling, we've kept her cot next to the bed in the spare room and I sleep in there and we usually end up cosleeping but now she won't even sleep then. Today I just sobbed all over DH, I am meant to writing my PhD thesis - there is so much riding on me getting this work finished before the summer - not just finances (which will become dire once I run out of funding) but also looming career opportunities. My depression and anxiety is getting past the point of being able to cope day to day.

So. I am stressed and massively sleep deprived - bone weary exhaustion.

AIBU to sleep train DD2 - if she is warm, fed, dry and safe in her cot (we have video monitors) to just put her down awake and sit out of sight? What if I wake the whole house every time she wakes up? DD1 still won't sleep through at 3 and this household cannot cope with the little sleep we are currently getting night on night on night, AIBU?

Yanbu. At all. I sleep trained both of mine and it saved my sanity. A good night's sleep is essential for everyone.

Do it, we did CC on DS at about the same age because I was going to lose it otherwise!! It took a little while but he got better and better. I was so scared of this "psychological scarring" or whatever but I eventually thought if I am giving him loads of love and attention in waking hours, I know he is fed and warm and there is nothing wrong with him, then he HAS to learn to settle himself. It made me a better parent because not going around sleep deprived all the time gave me the mental and physical strength to be a way better mum during the day. I now think that a child is way more psychologically scarred by an unhappy home full of tension due to sleep deprivation than a bit of sleep training. I know plenty of kids that have been sleep trained and are lovely,well-rounded, contented, happy kids, and my DS is one of them!

YANBU for wanting to make these changes. I really feel for you. I personally would not start sleep training that early but that was just me. I am a LP and my dd was a terrible sleeper and I truly thought I would go mad with lack of sleep but I did not start sleep training until she was 12 months, maybe too late in some peoples eyes but I did not feel comfortable with doing it before then (plus possibly slightly lazy on my part as I was so damn tired all the time).

I have read through but still have baby brain, did you say if you BF or not and have you tried co sleeping (although if you are on meds for your pnd maybe co sleeping would not be reccomended). I co slept with dd attached to my boob and it is the only way we both got some sleep.

When dd was 12 months I got advise from HV on how to do NHS approved sleep training (whatever that is, meant to be gentler). I also read about it online and just ended up doing my own method with leaving her for 5 minutes.

Also have you started weaning yet? I realised quite quickly that dd was probably hungry at night as she was a fussy eater even though I started to wean at 6 month. I built in milk and a sandwhich as part of her nighttime routine and I honestly think this little extra at around 6.30 pm (tea is at 5) helped to settle her better and get her sleeping through.

She still wakes at least once in the night though and is 15 months now but I leave her crying a lot longer these days.

Do what is right for you but to answer your actual question is 7 months too young, I personally think yes. To answer AIBU? No not at all. Hope you get all the help you can.

YANBU.

I am sure that plenty of us on Mumsnet have used sleep training but there is so much vitriol about it on here that anyone who dares say that it can be useful is considered cruel and heartless (I have recently had loads of flaming about it on another thread - I shrug it off ).

As others have said, please do whatever it takes for your family's needs.

Oh yes, what perfectstorm said! It's ok, you are doing it for the good of your family unit. Good luck.

We did sleep training w ds1 at 10mo (he was still waking twice a night to feed). Took 4 nights - wish we had done it earlier. He is now 8 and the deep trauma of those four nights is deeply buried in his subconscious. So deeply one might almost assume it wasn't there.

I sleep trained ds1 at 5 months, as I, like you, needed to be able to think and study.
It took 2 nights. He is now 6 yrs old, a brilliant sleeper and not iin the least bit scarred.
YANBU, and don't let anyone make you feel you are. We all do what we need to do, and BOTH your DCs would benefit from a well rested mum!
I write this one handed, pinned under 11 week old ds2, who will be sleep trained before I go back to work! No doubt he too will survive that unscathed!
Good luck!

You're proposing gradual withdrawal, which is a very gentle method. So go for it, you deserve more sleep.

OP how are you doing?

Me and DH tried this tonight with our nearly five month old DS2. Staying in the room with him in the cot.

Three hours later, Ds2 is snuggled up next to me attached to the boob as usual

DH and I took it in turns to stay with him, calming and comforting him......he just cried angrily throughout with a few lone minutes here and there of quiet hand-chewing.

I can't continue because I need sleep now (seriously sleep deprived); I know it creates inconsistency but there we are.

He will only sleep in the buggy or our arms - the odd ten mins in a bouncy chair too.

I have PND. It's not easy.

Hope your first attempts are far more successful!

This is just my own opinion, but I think about 7-9 months is a good time to start some type of sleep training, whether it be gradual withdrawal, CC or whatever. I did this with one of mine, the other just slept through anyway. I figured they were starting to eat in the day (but I weaned at around 5 months so a bit earlier than is now recommended, this was considered fine at the time) and she just didn't need endless feeds at night.

I think it's much much worse to try to get an older toddler who can climb out, scream, make themselves ill, and so on into good sleep habits. I can't say I envied my friends who waited til much later, their children seemed to scream so much more in total in their lives than mine did (two nights of about 3 hours total, going in and settling every few min). Theirs sobbed through naps, needed mum and dad to lie next to them or more screaming. Mine napped great and slept great and were very happy little souls in the daytime.

More importantly, I think the mum being able to cope is essential. I knew I would sleep train my dd2 if she hadn't started sleeping pretty well anyway before I returned to work when she was about 7/8 months, as I had to be fit to commute and work a difficult job in the day. That's not possible when you are sleep deprived.

Hope you get it sorted.

Do it, you won't look back. We did gradual withdrawal at 6 months and now have a wonderfully cheerful and rested 12 month old. But please be consistent, there is no point in putting effort in for a night or two then losing your nerve; your DH has to be supportive of this even if not actually involved. Good luck!

My hugely supportive GP gave me 2 nights worth of baby sedative so that we all had the strength to do it! He settled in 3 nights but was 18 months old ( I was on my knees)

Thank you for the support, DD2 woke a little while ago and I helf her and rocked her but as she wasn't nuzzling I put her back in the cot with ewan and stroked her hair until she fell back to sleep. I think we've amassed a whole load of bad habits recently and with an older child who does need me on the ball I think gently breaking those habits now rather than as an older child can only be a good thing.

Once dd2 is sleeping better we can gently encourage dd1 to sleep better. And then hopefully DH and I can get back to sleeping together again.

perfect storm thank you for validating my concerns re the depression, its something that has hovered around for decades but this time it is having a very real impact on my life and on my children - their mum is mostly detached and fairly exhausted 99% of the time. I haven't the energy to go out most days whoch seems very woe is me but its just such a hassle. Luckily DH although not perfect does pick up the slack, this weekend he has without shadow of a doubt done more housework and child play than I have.

OP I suffered badly with PND after my first child. I put it 90% down to lack of sleep. It's that important. And you rightly say that the children will benefit too. I was a much better mum once I got more sleep - and a nicer person! YADNBU.

No-one is saying that CIO causes brain damage, just that numerous studies have shown it to have some negative effects that last. No-one is helping the OP by making out that people are calling that brain damage, especially when she actually does have a child with brain damage. The only people likening CIO to brain damage are the people trying to twist the words of people merely saying that in their opinions, it's a choice to be avoided.

Also, the comments about it being negative are about CIO, which is the most extreme form of sleep training, which is what you appeared to be suggesting. There's many shades between no sleep training and CIO.

Have you heard of the Millpond clinic? I know people who have had success with it. I'm not a fan of any sort of sleep training, personally, but you have an extreme situation on your hands, and it's none of anyone's business what you try to help ameliorate it for all the family, so Millpond might help. www.millpondsleepclinic.com/

I think very reasonable to encourage a 7 month old baby, especially one who is eating protein (meat etc) to sleep at least 10-7. I went back to work at 6 months each time and knew they had to sleep through - dd was anyway but both ds1 and Ds2 needed a little help including a bottle of bedtime milk (think it has baby rice in it!) and only water when they woke up in the night. So didn't leave them to cry it out for more than a few mins equally they stopped walking up because they realised it just wasn't worth it as only getting water (I think started with very dilute formula etc). Unrealistic to do in one night but def possible over a couple of weeks.

At 7 months I started with 'sssh patting' to get the baby to go to sleep by himself - then once that was mastered just 'sshhing' within sight of the cot, then moving further away. It worked well - we never had crying for more than a minute once I left the room and once he could fall asleep on his own happily he started re-settling himself at night and slept (finally!). I started with naps as he found it easier when he wasn't too tired. Took about a month to really work and is a world away from CIO in my opinion. I would give it a go

at the relevance and assumptions behind your numerous studies

OP - you and your DH should speak to your GP about both dds sleep. I hope you can be perscribed mild sedatives for both and muscle relaxants for dd1.
It is hard to think clearly and coherently make a case when suffering with extreme sleep deprivation, but you need evidence based advice that takes your family circumstances into account.

My mum sleep trained me at three weeks and I turned out all right. I always felt very loved and had a happy childhood. One nights sleep will make a huge difference to you. Do you bf? If so get dh to tend to her one night a week with formula. It won't affect your supply because my daughter will do a twelve hour stint randomly every 6-8 days and if that affected my supply if have nothing for her the nights she wakes up three hourly, which simply isn't the case.

If you go in and she smiles then she's fine. That's my rule. Might take her a few days to get used to it. Good luck.

PS Getting your husband to do night duty at least once a week is crucial.

I used the M ill pond clinic. I was at the end of my tether. Sleeping through within 2 weeks!

I also used the millpond sleep clinic book and advice on my 7 month old - it was amazing. We sat next to the cot shhing patting / singing just not picking him up - he woul fall asleep after a bit of a cry - and within a single night his sleep dramatically improved - he did a 6 hour stretch the first night - having been up every half an hour

I had basically been interfering with his natural sleep by picking him up and bf him at the slightest movement or cry because I was so exhausted

for those who say that sleeping with the baby attached to your boob all night is a solution - I tried that and it was absolute hell - no sleep for anyone - I was in tears most of the day and night with exhaustion

Just let people make decisions for their own family - op keep your babies needs in mind , follow your instinct - most people I know have done some form of gentle sleep trainibg

I agree with Perfectstorm too. Your mental health is the most important thing here. You seem to be at the end of your tether and you need some decent sleep.

And I say that as someone who coslept and breastfed DD2 until she was 2, I was a SAHM though, I could not have done that if I had work commitments.

I don't know anything about CC but maybe people who have done it could give some tips to the OP?

We used to tell people we did CIO but actually I later read the French children book and what we did was closer to the pause, i.e. She'd often cry down for a few minutes. Generally if it went past 5 mins, something else was wrong and it was time to intervene. Good luck op, yanbu and dd was so much happier for sleeping well.

OP wasn't intending to use CIO or CC as far as I can see.

So it's not going to help her if we all have a great big Barney on here about the merits of either approach.

We can save that for another day.