School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

This links to DM (ALERT)-

The HM works for same LEA that fined the couple in the OP

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108743/Primary-school-headteacher-takes-week-term-time-skiing-parents-fined-taking-kids-holiday.html

Wellthen if you don't want to offend then please don't claim "No one works every single day of the summer holidays" it just shows how much you don't see about people not in your position. Lots of low income parents work every day all the way through, and their only time of is Christmas. Thats also why playschemes and childminders also have to work through.

Those families aren't affected by the holiday debate, they are affected by AA rules when disaster strikes.

Coldlight the other thing that I think affected and changed things for London parents was the loss of the LEA which used to mean inter borough co-operation regardless of who was in power.

Brettgirl yes, lots of relief for us too when a disruptive bully dispeared for weeks. (Interestingly it took some time on his return for him to resume disrupting)

yes fines where given for persistent absence not any absence

Fines are not new - the way they are being applied IS though

If both of you are shift workers, you can easily go 8 or 9 weeks before you end up with a weekend off together to spend with the DC.

At one point in my life, I worked a 7-day week for 18 months, followed by a 6-day week for another 2 years after that. The single day I had off rarely feel on a weekend to coincide with time off school.

Childcare is so expensive (and often not available on weekends in many areas) I know of many families where weekends are deliberately not taken together so that one can provide childcare to allow the other to work.

Many companies are at their busiest - and therefore operate strict leave restrictions - during school holiday periods.

I accept the HM in TiredEmma's link having his time off. I think fair enough, he's earned it and couldn't take it at another time. Shame the government can't offer the same discretion to other families.

Sigh

I work 5 weekends in 8 - but that wil mean that I may do Friday nightshift and sleep Saturday on my 'day off'

I also only get my shift patterns eight weeks in advance and these can change - I worked 3xnights then backshift Xmas day/ backshift Boxing Day/ early 28th. I am trying to book A/L for July but am unable to get any shifts off. Have managed end of June - only time I can get two weeks.

I am working all over Easter every may bank holiday. My two weeks in the sun is time to rest and be normal. Like many other families.

johnny its not a case of being ignorant of the ways of the private sector. its about recognising the importance of flexibility and discretion isn't it. of course my business wont collapse if I am away. but at the moment we take the children away separately if there is a weekend wedding, christening whatever. we have to be able to work when we can get into schools when there are no pupils around which is weekends and school holidays. I don't really care what you do for a job. but I do know that at some time in the future you might well find yourself in my position where you have to take some days out of school with your kids. when this happens and you apply for leave then perhaps you will think about these postings and see why we are all so angry.

Wonders what will the consequences of this 'law' with pupils that have a low attendance rate. Will it then be OK to fine them on the grounds that the child well really should have been at school therefore it's an unauthorized absence.

Because there has been so many threads in the past where a parent was told the child HAD to be at school despite said child having some health problems (known by the school)... In that case, will the HT discretion mean that it will be OK for them to fine the parents? Because clearly on his/her opinion has any weight in the process.

Will it be the parent responsibility to prove the child wasn't on hols or is the HT responsibility to prove they were away on hols (Big issue here with the 'proven until guilty' side of things)? Again if you read stuff on here, all the responsibility is on the parent to prove the child was off for being ill because the HT has decided it wasn't the case.....

I mean all the things that have been raised in this thread ALREADY happen across the country. What is going to happen when all schools will have to follow these rules (Quite a lot of them don't yet!)? What is going to happen in 2 years time when OFSTED will have had a massive go at school for 'unauthorized absence' levels being too high and questioning why such and such a child is off so often?

"Have managed end of June - only time I can get two weeks. "

"My two weeks in the sun is time to rest and be normal."

Tw2K tries to remember last time she - as a child or an adult - had a 2 week holiday, still less one in the sun. Fails.

Perhaps it uis that which makes others on this thread angry - that those who take term-time holidays are claiming as a 'right' something that those of us who never take term time holiday have never been able to have.

Excuse my very slight resentment while I work ever more hours in term time to ensure that every child in my class makes the progress that that they need to (there is the minor point that from this year my pay will depend on this, though tbh that is not the main motivator for me - it is, cliched though it sounds, the children I care about), even if they have taken a term time holiday.... which is longer and far more exotic that I will ever be able to give my own children.

But as a teacher Tw2k you will have weekends off with your DC. Many won't.

And it's not about two weeks in the sun. It's about time off at a time where it allows family to be together.

but teacher you work for a council, which means by default you have a pension, sickness benefits, the 13 weeks of the year when you aren't fighting everyone else in your works for leave, a half decent wage.

This cannot be compared to someone who for example is a carer on minimum wage, looking after the sick and elderly for a pittance, paying their own mileage between calls, at the whim of their employer as to when they can take their leave and with the provisio it can be cancelled.

Or those who are on that great fair employment scheme - sero hours contract.

Etc etc, while I know teaching is not the dream it is - it is hardly the most onerous job with the worst working terms conditions or pay.

So, how much have the parents of the 16 year old boy who has just walked to the South Pole been fined for his absence from school?

When I went to school we covered the same material repeatedly.
This was true all the way thru my last year of university. Always some repeat material in every syllabus.
Seems to be true of what I see from DC's education, too.

But MNers seem to report that a subject matter is taught ONCE and ONLY ONCE FOREVER MORE. Which is why even one day off can have disasterous impacts.

Is this really true in your experience? Never any lesson plans that are recaps? How odd!

ps; cross post, I asked that on another thread, too, Sally!!

As there seem to be a few teachers around I am curious to know your thoughts on this situation.

If a school HT decides to place a child on a reduced timetable for months, denying them a full time education, when the child wants to be learning, shouldn't they be held accountable in some way? If education is so important that unauthorised absences result in a fine to the parents how is it acceptable for HT's to deny a child an education without penalty ?

I'm guessing that the boy who walked to the South Pole went to private school - the rules only apply to state schools.

I am always interested to see that the same posters who are totally for the system as it is are also the ones who do not answer the cases of children in special circumstances that have been refused some time off.
I have yet to see one of those posters giving their opinions on children going back to one their parent home country. Or about the child who sibling is severely disabled etc
No no let's just concentrate on those who say they want to go away in the sun like everyone else and how resentful one is that they can't do it even though a week in a sunny place can easily cost half of a camping hols in the uk

Yes- no teacher has given their views on my scenario. There seem to be distinct double standards with some people.

Those of us who believe children should be at school in term time have been quite clear that there can be exceptional circumstances.

Teacher - what on earth does your ability to pay fir a 2 week holiday abroad have to do with anything?

And I am not a special case - so many parents who do not work yet normal 9to 5 - ie: NHS, armed forces, police. Retail workers, delivery drivers, factory workers, struggle to get time off due to everyone else bedding that time too.

It doesn't matter where they are going - a worthy cottage holiday in Cornwall/Devon or a sun/sea/sand in Majorca - that's totally irrelevant.

Child with severely disabled sibling - I can see that the argument could be made, if it is a 1-parent family and if no respite care or care with relatives is available for the disabled sibling during weekends or any school holidays. So it could be an exceptional case, or could not, depending on the precise circumstances.

In cases of breavement - in almost all cases this should be treated as exceptional circumstances, as long as the absence is proportionate to the circumstances (so 3 weeks to go to a funeral of a very distant aunt the family has very little contact with is, common sense would suggest, different from a few days to vsit a terminally ill granny who has been a regular feature of the children's lives).

In cases of genuinely very low wages / impossible shift patterns of 2 low wage parents etc - again, I have some sympathy with this. Though tbh if what was asked for was 'a 2 week holiday in the sun because I can only get a week during the school holidays and I want a fortnight' that would be different from 'please could we have a couple of days around a weekend in March because that is the only time in the year we can possibly afford to go, look at the prices'. Especially if said family is already flagged as vulnerable, low wage, known never to have had a holiday before etc.

It is so dependent on precise family circumstances, it is really very difficult to give blanket 'this is reasonable / this is not' statements.

I have yet to see one of those posters giving their opinions on children going back to one their parent home country. Or about the child who sibling is severely disabled etc

I'm one of those who has a typical child and a child with a severe and complex range of disabilities and I'm still against term time holidays. Obviously every child with a disability has a unique set of needs and each of the families cope differently, but I wouldn't want to take my children out for a holiday during term time. Whilst it's true that it is much easier for my child to cope on a holiday if it is quieter, that has to be balanced with his need for routine and the damage caused by taking him out of school during term time. It works best for us to go somewhere that is quiet even when it's peak season, that way no disruption is caused by missing school and the holiday will still be reasonably quiet.

Part time timetables are effectively part time regular school exclusions and should be documented as an exclusion and the authority should be able to question why the child has been excluded, whether the exclusion is necessary and whether alternative full time education should be sought.

Cheesy - the scenario you have painted seems, from the info you have guiven, unreasonable. Why is the child on reduced timetable? Internal exclusion? Exclusion? Behavioural issues? SEN? Reintegration following absence / exclusion?

Obviously, there are circumstances in which a child does not attend school full-time or even at all, for the safety of themselves or others - children with reduced immune systems, children who have been excluded due to violent behaviour. There are systems that pick up some of these - e.g. PRUs, Special Schools, or the education service prvided by special teams for those medically unable to attend school.

There are also short-term arrangements e.g. for the re-integration of children - I have in the past been involved in one of these for a child with significant behavioural issues while meduication was balanced.

A long-term part-time timetable in school is not something I have come across except for those under statutory school age or the flexi-schooled, tbh. Can you explain?

teacher you get 13 weeks a year off work at the same time as your children - you surely do see our situation as teachers is hugely different to that of minimum wage workers with only 4 wks holiday entitlement and no sick pay (hence annual leave has to be used for appointments etc or used when ill because you can't afford not to be paid)?

i'm afraid teachers saying oh poor me i work term time in the face of such workers deserve a good reality slap frankly.