School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

Tiggy thanks for answering. As a parent who’s never sought a holiday and neither has anyone I know personally apart from a couple asking 1 to 2 days earlier departure, or later return, at end start of term, and one case of no money or hope of any, who won a luxury expenses paid dream holiday (congratulated by the head) because they either couldn’t afford one, didn’t believe in skipping school, or could afford to go in peak, but lots would be away for religious stuff, so I wasn’t sure.

Coldlight I guess I mean families who really value education but can’t afford to move into decent schools catchments, and who now have catchments shrink away from them as more wealthier move in to anywhere good, pushing them out of not only decent school’s but any specific catchment area, so end up bussed out past local schools to whatever others don’t want, that have spaces.

Those dead catchments, and poor school areas become the ones that can be afforded to live in too so it becomes a vicious circle.

The shrinking catchment didn’t used to be a big issue, and it used to be more different mixtures of people went to the local school unless it was truly dire. Church schools tended to be used by more genuinely religious, keeping most of the rest together locally, and didn’t get taken over by the well-heeled as feeder schools for private. That’s been a huge change.
Over time it’s felt like it’s become much more divided as to who not only goes where, but who’s expected to. Some comments from HT's, SMT, and teachers, that didn't used to be seen as the way you communicated.

wellthen - quite possibly the most disrespectful post ever. have some damn respect for those of us who don't live in your naice little 9 - 5 world of 52 weekend off a year altogether. well clearly you have no respect for people like me. who have set out what their problem is honestly. how can I respect a h/t who wont even listen to my problem. who just says, rules are rules I am not using my discretion. How can I respect an MP - Mr Gove - when he comes out with a rule that he knows is actually only going to hit the easy target not deal with the real problems. sorry I am not a SAHM who gave up work the minute my kids came along. sorry I try to run a business employing me and many other people when really I should have just gone on the dole. sorry I believe in doing what I think is best for my kids when really I should just do what Mr Gove says is best because after all he and all the other MP are a fantastic and shining example to my kids and always right. Follow the law because it is the law even if you don't agree with it? really? lets hope they start fracking under your homes then Johnny and wellthen. because after all if its the law, its the law and it must be right. I am damn angry that the previously good relationship I have with my kids school where we worked together has gone. that's all. really simple. I don't deserve a break though do I because I am an unfit mother for even daring to start my own business when I have kids and for being stupid enough to want to spend a concerted amount of time with them.

I have just been on travel- uk topic here on MN. someone is talking about a holiday costing £XXX plus the fine. well done Mr Gove. you must be sooo happy. still people aren't realising. its not the fine its the criminal record that goes with it.

I am not being daft - convicted rapists get community service, suspended sentences etc, get their crimes reduced to lesser crimes for ease of prosecution, or don't get found guilty at all, given the low enough conviction rate for reported crime of this nature.

I am not entirely sure where the criminality comes from when taking your children out of school.

suspended sentence for rape

I was looking for the one where the young girls were gang raped and the judge gave the boys concerned a suspended sentence when they appealled on the basis the girls were effectively "asking for it", or the one where the boy who abused his neighbours girl wasn't imprisoned because the judge felt sorry for him. These are all cases where no fine or prison sentence was imposed.

mummymeister still people aren't realising. its not the fine its the criminal record that goes with it.

There's no criminal record to be had if you just pay the fine you've incurred.

This is not my understanding of it permenantlyexhausted. if your absence is not authorised then the H/T tells the EWO they can decide to take you to court even if you agree to pay the fine. It isn't just a matter of factoring in the fine to your holiday. the EWO can prosecute you for failing to ensure your child attends school. someone a couple of pages back pointed this out. I agree it would be harsh to do this on the first 2 days off or whatever but that's the point. discretion is built in so you have no idea whether your EWO isn't bothered unless its over 2 weeks away or whether they jump on any day off.

wellthen - good girl! big pat on the head and rub of your tummy. what an obedient well trained girl you are! excuse us for not all wanting to roll over and beg on command and who still question things imposed from above.

Wellthen sorry I disagree with pretty much every single thing you've written bar it's against the rules.

It shouldn't be against the rules as many,many posters have illustrated.This is a democracy and if a very lazy government decide to penalise all parents in a sledgehammer approach to punish a few whilst giving their own children the very thing they are denying so many- I think parents are perfectly at liberty to voice their displeasure.

Have some respect- seriously.Respect goes two ways ime and this gov is giving very little to several sectors of society.

Oh and you might want to read the thread,the vast maj of parents I know aren't simply after a week in Tenerife.The implication that this is what it's all about is quite frankly insulting.

personally I wouldn't take my children out, I think they need a holiday ideally in the long 6 week break.

As an ex teacher though tbh often the children that were taken out served as a welcome break for the other children/ teacher rather than a disruption.

One really badly behaved boy in my form had 3 weeks off one year. Bliss for all

though i have to say even if they were after a week in tenerife if they were good parents, worked 48weeks a year for minimum wage, spent evenings juggling school homework, cleaning, cooking and all the rest of it, ensured their children were well behaved, polite and worked hard at school i wouldn't begrudge them a week in tenerife in term time if that was what they could afford.

since when is it criminal to want to go on holiday every few years? is it really such a entitled awful thing to want to retain a teeny bit of control over your life in the midst of working, bill paying, school conforming and the rest of it?

what sort of quality of life and autonomy do we want people to have?

or when you have children should you just become an employee of the state, policed at every turn in how you're bringing up the next generation of worker bees? the new compulsory school age comes into this as well.

there isn't a new compulsory school age. It is a new participation age. Young people can start an apprenticeship or a job with training.

Otherwise I agree with you, there is a strange attitude on mn that challenging official rules of any kind gets you labelled as 'entitled'.

wellthen I would suggest you read the entire thread and maybe this post which sort of summarize some of the things

FreshCucumber Sat 18-Jan-14 09:53:46

What people on this thread have said is that:
1- there is a need of more flexibility
2- the system isn't fair as different schools can take a different decision
3- there is no transparency ie what is ok or not isn't clearly defined
4- the reason for using such a sledge hammer approach is weak. ie there are plenty of other times when children DO loose time at school and this isn't addressed. The parents who really don't send their dcs to school regularly aren't actually being targeted by the system etc etc.

You might want to add the possibility you will end of with a criminal record, even though you can't appeal the decision in the first place (like you can for a parking fine for example) and the decision is taken by someone with veted interest in the process.

No one is saying here that they are 'entitled' to go away whenever they want because it suits them but f* the school and the the child's education (even though I know some parents who would :().
But that the way the government has decided to do it isn't making sense for a number of reasons.

Now can you explain me how this case is fair and acceptable?

Child1 is NT and is going to school. Child 1 has a sibling, child 2, who is severely disabled and is going to special school. When at home child 2 need constant 1-1 attention.
Child1 never gets a break from his sibling except at school.
One of the parent wants to take child1 out of school for a holiday respite but can only do so during term time so that child2 is looked after during the day.
'Holiday' is refused because ... it's just a holiday.

I could give you lots and lots of other cases if you want. Not just 'I can't take time off during the holidays' type of situation. Children whose parent(s) are coming from abroad. Children whose parents have 'strange' working patterns such as people in the army. Children who want to spend time with a dying family member, go to a funeral, a wedding. All of which might be abroad thanks to a society who is now 'global'.
That's why it has to be an evaluation on a case by case basis by someone independent rather than the HT who has so many other pressures put in them.

As an ex teacher though tbh often the children that were taken out served as a welcome break for the other children/ teacher rather than a disruption.
lol.

You know you aren't suppose to say that you find some the children hard work don't you? They are all little angels...

Tiggy that is a change - and it's the one causing the issues - HT's had discretion to allow up to 10 days authorised leave during term term - now they don't - at all AND the fine introduced of £60 per child per parent per absence is also a change. This came in in Sept 2013

That is why people are confused and cross

Yeah Mummymeister, that's exactly what I said, you are a bad person because of the career you chose.

Ubik are you saying you work EVERY weekend? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just asking if this is the case.

This is exactly what annoys me - people come on and say 'I work all the time' when, quite obviously this isn't true. No one works every single day of the summer holidays. Why does time spent with children have to be in 2 week slots? Why can't it be a day here, a day there?

It also annoys me that I have been personally attacked for having a '9 to 5' job. Ok so if you've seen previous posts you might know I'm a teacher but how do you know my partner isn't in the army or police?

If people on here are challenging based on extreme circumstances then that is different and Heads who say no to this are being twats. But the OP was asking about the fines and saying they are ridiculous. The posters most offended by my posts are posters who probably have genuine reason to take their kids out. My post was AIMED at posters who say
one week wont make a difference
in my day it wasn't like this
stupid rule, just take them out
holiday is enriching
they don't have to be in school you know, they have to be educated
I got some worksheets from the teacher (yes...because this is the same as school)

I'm sorry if I've upset people, it wasn't my intention. I think my post has been taken a little personally. But, in all honesty, I don't actually see why 'hard working families' shouldn't have to follow the rules. I DO have some 'fucking respect' (again you have no idea of my personal experiences such as my own parents) for parents who work all the time. I just think they should also have to holiday in term time.

out of term time sorry

10 days absence from school every year of your child school career results in your child missing over half a year over the 11 years they are at school. Don't forget that they might be ill sometimes too. They might need a dentist/doctors appointment.
Can your child really keep up if they miss this much school?

well that's why I suggested you read the thread...

This thread has moved quite a bit from the OP and people have been bringing forward A LOT of arguments against this law. It doesn't mean that everyone should be able to take their dcs out school for 2 weeks every year which was the understanding of a lot opf people (As I said, as a foreigner not knowing the UK system, that's what I had been told...). Just that the system as it has been set now is CRAP.
And mummy also had given more info of her circumstances. She DOES work all weekends and hols due to her job being ... linking with holidaymakers (ie if she is working this is during the weekend and the hols).

And once more, the very big issue with the law as it stands is the fact that it is not unusual for one these 'exceptional' circumstances NOT to be given the go ahead thanks to HT being humans, pressure from OFSTED, the lack of guidelines etc...

Do some people see the fine as the charge they have to pay to take children out of school? The cost of the fine might be less that the difference in cost of the holiday out of season.

Yep some people with enough money will just factor that cost in the cost of the hols. I know I have though about it myself--

So not an issue for well off people. A big problem for the less off.
Is that fair?

I think it's very unfair of the holiday companies to up their prices over the holidays.

OP's business operates every weekend and every day in the school holidays. Her and her staff must work all of these days, no time off allowed. This makes it essential that she takes her children out of school during term time. Presumably her staff have to do the same.

Goodness knows what happens if she's incapacitated for a few days - presumably the company goes bust. Doesn't seem like a particularly robust business model but hey, I'm totally ignorant of the ways of the private sector (quite how the OP knows this I don't know, but whatever).

Apparently the rest of us work 9-5 for The Man, are SAHPs, or worse, teachers. Likewise, our partners. We couldn't possibly understand.

OP's requirement to remove her children from school in term time is equivalent to the need of bereaved children or children from services families with a parent retuning from operations.

This is impossible, Wellthen.

Bugger. Replace OP with mummymeister please in the above - I'm confusing threads.