School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

Ubik,

I agree that my ability to take a fornight's foreign holiday is not entirely germane to the discussion.

However, the claim made by many who want a fortnight off in term time is

'I want to have what everyone else has the chance to have a 2 week foreign holiday'.

As I said a long way upthread, the large majority of people I know - in an achingly MC area - do not take 2 week foreign holidays, or 2 week holidays at all. They take a week - sometimes at Easter, sometimes May half term, sometimes in the summer holidays.

The 'I must have a term time holiday' brigade weaken their argument by wanting to have, in effect, more than the norm. The line 'I cannot get leave at any other time so the only way we can even have a few days as a family is to take a few days off in school time' is rather different from "My two weeks in the sun".

teacher can't put too much info but basically it wasn't for medical reasons more due to behaviour arising from disabilty. The absences were not recorded as exclusions at all.

Cheesy, then extremely dodgy, I weould say. as the Ed Psych team or other behavioural support involved?

Numpty,

Good slap accepted as entirely reasonable. Apologies, I was cross.

I do think that there ARE exceptional circumstances, that should be allowed. It is the abuse of existing arrangements that used to make it, perhaps, easier to grant these exceptional circumstances, that has led to the tightening up.

So, in a way, should abuse not be directed to the HTs who administer the current rules, but the families who abused the old rules to take (as of right) 2 weeks of holiday every year - as it is that abuse of the system that gave rise to the rule change?

Cheesy - they should have been recorded as exclusions. The school is getting away with not having your child in full time but not documenting it and following the appropriate procedures because they don't want the hassle of being questioned and having to answer those questions.

teacher Yes there was involvement - all were aware of what the school was doing. Apparently it was a fairly regular thing there.

norude I was told it is down to the discretion of the HT whether to supply education or not apparently

Cheesy, that's bad - effectively illegal exclusions.

Cheesy illegal hidden exclusion goes on all the time. Hiding it allows them not to make proper provision and you to have no proof your child's not being properly educated to change things with.

I'm not having a go at you, more trying to point out that responsibilities and rights are tied together; you're actually responsible legally to ensure your child's educational needs are met, whether you delegate the provision to a school or not.
It is the fact they are making you be in breach of your legal responsibilities that gives you all sorts of rights to demand change.
I've put this position before three judges. We won.

just I don't understand. If it is the responsibility of the parent to ensure that educational needs are met then why fine parents at all. Surely a lot of holidays/trips are educational

this hasn't come about because of people taking their children on holiday - that is not what this ruling is for - people who think that are just niaive and blind to the real issues.

I agree - this is one of the only ways that councils can claw back money.

I don't think it's even about that - it's about keeping the masses in their place

this wouldn't be allowed in the workplace so why in a school

heaven help a poor person should dream of travelling and seeing the world

can't do it as a child - can't do it as an adult with children

it may not be the poverty trap of old - but it's definitely designed to create a new one along with the rest of this governments policies

"Up until recently many reasoned adults took a rational decision to very occasionally have a term time holiday if their child wasn't behind and would be helped to catch up.
In recent years this became totally abused and caused chaos for teachers who (despite parental perceptions) can't "just give him a worksheet" to catch up. That's why it changed. Not because people of the 1960's - 1980's felt they'd missed out but because, in the age of greater holiday expectations, more of today's children were being harmed by parents who took weeks out of school year in, year out regardless of their child's attainment and attendance levels."

Can't be bothered to retype Tiggy's post from another thread, since she'd said it already....

IME it isn't used as a money-making scheme. It is intended - like speeding fines, or fines for parking in stupid places - as a deterrant.

this govt reminds me of the Bee Movie - send them full time to schoo at 3l and work them til they die.

I don't get all thus ' low wage' hand wringing either. All shift workers I know earn substantially more than that. We just work hours which do not 'fit' 9-5 what does income have yo do with it?

my husbands employers have stopped all shift premiums and unsociable hour payments - it doesn't affect him as he IA salaried - but the majority of the workforce are minimum wage workers on 24/7 contracts.

And what about zero hours contracts which also tend to be minimum wage and no additional benefits.

another of my friends is a minimum wage care worker - not only does she not get gift premiums her employer has also stopped paying mileage so she is being to go between calls.

The hand wringing is because some of us can see the bigger picture

Also there is more to education than school.

*shift premiums

so she is being out of pocket to go between calls - she is also not paid for this time - she cab do a 12 hour day and be paid 8 hours.

tw2k
I think we chill agree that some parents abused the system and that that system was NG.
I agree that taking a child off on a regular basis, let's say 1 week on hols and then being ill during year to a total of1.5 week us detrimental to the child.
I also agree that the priority should be the education if the child. School shouldn't be 'as and when I choose to do do' just as work isn't.

But I hugely disagree with the system like it usbecause it us unfair. You did agree with me that the cases I was talking about could genuine be special circumstances (I was actually talking about taking a child away from their disabled sibling for a week but I am sure you got the picture)
The problem us these people HAVE been refuse the possibility to go away. And that's WHY the system is wrong.

Of course you can say it's all the fault of bad HTs but do you think we, as parents, will be able to remove them/change them or do you think it's the children who will miss put instead?

Speeding fines are a money-making scheme - isn't that widely recognised? I don't mean that there isn't a safety angle too, but collecting money is a big part of it. Especially in those parts of the country where they change the speed limit every half mile seemingly arbitrarily.
I would also wager that this is partly about raising money. At least the money will mainly be raised from the reasonably well off, as the poor won't be able to afford it. But the very rich escape the whole problem via private schools.

sofucked - one of the most repeated arguments for allowing term time absence is that employers won't allow parents time off in school holidays.

Basically you're saying that employers should be able to get away with not granting staff leave outside of term time and that schools should take the hit for this. Employers' convenience is more important than children's schooling.

What's it to be?

I would also be interested on your pov on parents who repeatilly 'forget' to take their dcs to school. The ones who keep a child of for very little.
How us that system going to address these issues? Does it mean that any parent sent to the EWOL will face the risk of a fine (beSring in mind there is already plenty if issues with parents being told off because their child genuinely ill)
Aren't these issues more important?

I have to say I am but at the idea that the cost of the fine to take one child off school (£120) is higher than the one for a speeding ticket in a 30mph zone (£60) knowing that you still avoid paying the fine on ghatkater caseby accepting to be 'educated' (no such a chance for the parents. Maybe they are deemed too thick for the message to drop?)

Are you suggesting bringing in a new law to force employers to allow employees time off during school holidays? I REALLY can't see that happening under this government.
There was a recent thread where the OP suggested that parents of children at school should get priority over colleagues for time off in school hols. It went down very very badly, and that's on a parenting website.

I'm not convinced by the "holidays are educational to" argument. If holidays away are such a fundamental right and so important to children's well-being then why aren't they paid for by the government? Because they aren't a right, they are a privilege of a smaller and smaller section of society.

I don't agree with fining parents BTW, but out of principal I don't think people should remove their children from school in all but the most important reasons (close family wedding, visiting close relatives abroad, bereavement, military families etc) and then only as a one off, not as a regular annual thing.

you are asking the wrong person - I believe there is more to education than school - i think children can and do learn as much out of school and I worked for an employer that banned all leave over the school holidays the year of the olympics

employers have to consider flexi working yet this government has effectively banned flexi schooling arrangements and I think will start gunning for home edders soon

bear in mind parents have the option to withdraw from school full stop