School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

HTs do have discretion to authorise go funerals, and humane, decent ones do so.

But just as there are crap employers, there are dreadful HTs. And I think someone who refuses to grant the pemission which they any only they can grant, whilst trying to blame Governors/LEA/Gove/other plausible 'villain', is probably an awful HT in other ways too.

And if doing so over a bereavement is a very limited person and probably unpleasant in other ways too.

but HT's have a legal obligation to ensure attendance - under legislation brought in by this government and OFSTED will penalise them if they don't - it's not uncaring HT's is scared HT's - a school on special measures is ripe for academy take over - threatening all the staff the HT is responsible for

Exactly what Gordy says.

Most schools will be understanding if you need to take them out of school in an emergency. However two weeks of lying by the pool is not an emergency.

Numpty If you call the school on Monday then they should be able to authorise it. If you don't call them then it's your problem.

pipbin is 'most schools' enough given there is zero right to appeal?

this is why decisions such as whether to fine someone or grant permission for a legal issue are not generally taken by one solitary figure let alone a solitary figure who cannot possibly be impartial due to said pressures of ofsted, attendance figures etc. it's also why people have the right of appeal whereby they get to challenge decisions if they believe a mistake has been made or a decision has been made based on prejudice or other pressures rather than a fair impartial one.

if there was an appeal process or decisions were made by a panel of independent people then fine.

to give one person such authority over lives and say well most of them will probably be fair so long as they're not too scared about ofsted, don't dislike the parent on the basis of class, race, marital status or education, don't resent already making accommodations for the family based on special educational needs or having been challenged over a school issue in the past etc etc etc is not good enough.

Which legislation brings in the obligation for HTs to ensure attendance?

My apologies, I'm very familiar with the changes to the verbiage on discretion to authorise absences, but that must be something separate which has passed me by.

Tiggy and was that because too many HT's who knew their families where authorising them?

you didn't answer my question as to whether 'most' or 'usually' is enough.

what ensures hts are acting fairly and reasonably? is it acceptable to have no recourse available when they are not?

however above we also find examples given by a parent who had been refused with similar circumstances. why are we just pretending that all HTs are reasonable, fair and will make good judgments?

Thanks tiggytape

I thought there hadn't been any changes (and hoped I hadn't missed any).

whether or not you agree with term times holidays, do you actual agree it is a criminal matter, with severe penalties in many cases, than violent assualt, rape etc?

Eh? So in many cases parents who take their children in holiday in term time face greater punishment than convicted rapists?

Don't be daft.

I can't see how these new rules are squared off with the school organizing trips - DS2 aged 9 is going for a week's skiing holiday with school. It is a year 6 trip but they didn't have enough children wanting to go and so opened it up to year 5. There will be nine children out of his class going while the rest remain in school.

I am happy for him to go, but cannot see that it will be anything other than an enjoyable trip for him in terms of the value to his 'learning', in the same way that he would enjoy a week away in term time with his family?

Coldlight I've had dcs, and sdcs (and in the 00's dgcs) in schools across four decades (gulp!) and it's only in the late 90's onwards I've experienced either a really bad over controlling HT, or terrified of Ofstead not in control of my school ones.
I’ve also witnessed changing standards good and bad, and it becoming harder and harder for families like mine to access any but the least popular, least well run, schools.

Auntie the problem is HT are just humans.
You will have good ones and bad ones.
You will have a school with splendid report and no fear from OFSTED and one who is in trouble already for various reasons and fears OFSYED so much that will have no flexibility at all.
You will have a HT who think it's OK to impose his beliefs on other people (such as the HT who though that children shouldn't attend a funeral or see a dying family member).

So in principle it's better to give lots of leeway to HT because then you can deal with things on a case to case basis.
In reality you have a system that is unfair (because 2 schools can give 2 different answers), one where parents don't understand what is OK or not (for the same reason) etc...
Hence the need to 'compensate' for these 'bad' (as you said) HTs that 'create' problems....

tiggy this actually a really good point.
When my dcs started school (bearing in mind I am not from this country sop knew nothing about how the schools were run), I was told that everyone was allowed to take up to 10 days out the school hols.
I was extremely surprised to say the least. I also realized quickly that some parents didn't take advantage of it. Some parents were using that opportunity to go away when they wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise.
And some parents did it 'because the could' and went away during term time just to save a few £100 when they could actually have afforded them.
This last group is certainly an issue and the system needed to be stricter. But not that way.

I had a bit of a look around re criminal matter and fines. What I found left me a bit dazzled tbh.

I found that

• fine given by a magistrate are dependant on the ability of the offender to pay
• you would pay less for shoplifting (around £50??) than for taking a child out of school for a day
• Different offenders may not be given the same sentence for the same type of crime, as magistrates and judges look at the circumstances of each case and each offender.

Doesn't seem to be what happens here with this hols stuff

how can they fine you per parent,the parents arent required to attend school?

Family time - 52 weekends in a year. In the unlikely event that both parents can't get ANY non-term time weeks off together that year, they must have at least a few days off together. This is your family time. Use it to spend time as a family.

Enriching experiences - they are children. They need to be with their families, having fun and being outside. All of these are possible in this country. Not to mention the history, nature, culture and sport.

Not missing much - this is completely incorrect but yes, most kids do just slip back in and don't see many ill effects. Except for the ill effect that they now think you should just be able to take holidays whenever you want.

Cant afford it - save up. Have a holiday every 2 or 3 years. Sorry I have no sympathy for this. Families genuinely on the breadline couldn't give a shit about Tenerife.

None of the arguments for term time holidays stand up to any analysis. It is absolutely NOT necessary for children to even leave their own home, let alone the country, to have fun family experiences.

It isn't about education or tax payers. Term time holidays, once in a while, are unlikely to have much impact. But that isn't the point.

Its. Against. The. Rules.

Have some damn respect.

Wellthen - well done for possibly the most sanctimonious, patronisivg post I have ever read on mumsnet (and that's saying something)

I work Xmas/Easter/bank holiday/weekends. All the time you are out enjoying the countryside with your children, I am working. Have some fucking respect.