To think that Midday Assistants are not utilized or respected as much as they should be?

[AwfulMaureen]

In schools I mean. They are party to ALL of our children's social issues at playtime....which is often the hardest time for some children...I remember when my DD1 was having some issues in her new school and I asked the teacher how she was at playtime...the teacher said she'd try to find out!

She did bless her....but it made me see...the playtime assistants see all of it don't they? We have no contact with them...they don't get paid enough to be worrying about being hassled by anxious parents I know...but maybe they should be paid more and also be able to chat to parents about the kids' social development when some have issues...getting left out or bullied for instance...these things happen all the time don't they?

I didn't say it was OP

You asked me if I work in a school and I answered your question.

Chill out Worra I was only having a joke.

Lol BackforGood

I used to be a mid day supervisor...kids were great, thankless job though....

We had to lay out the hall, supervise getting and eating of meals- both cooked and packed lunch (2 of us in the hall that took 200 kids - 400 kids in total doing a rolling lunchbreak) 2 of us outside to supervise the other 200 play.... then clear up after on the dot ready for afternoon assembly...

in an IDEAL world there would have been 4 in and 4 out... but cutbacks meant they relied on others being around to help if needed!

We prayed for no wet play... can you imagine... 2 in the hall supervising eaters, 2 to cover 15 classrooms including 3 reception classes this year!!

I left because I found my little 1hr a day job too stressful... I now work in retail and it is a breeze....

sorry - so my point is - no I don't think middays should speak to parents - parents would be horrified to find the minimal supervision levels nowadays... besides which some days it was hard enough to remember which way is up let alone whether someone had someone to play with

Being a governor is not quite the same as being a midday assistant or a teacher though is it?
Chill out Worra I was only having a joke.

An odd sort of 'joke' OP.

At dds old school a number of things went on at lunch that concerned me.

Lots accidents
rows/upsets

teacher not fully aware.

1 little girl in dd1s class fell off some equipment in lunch hour,

not sure what went wrong teacher was not told.

The shy child then spent all afternoon quiet and in pain until hometime mum picked her up she could barly walk went to a&e fracture in plaster for 6weeks mum rightfully annoyed.

There was one dinner lady mine adored who also did breckfast club.
There was another lots moaned about.
nother one a parent at school as many are who would tell me straight whats gone on and what she said was fair representation of how my dd described it often she be upset or alone and teacher seemed unaware.

we have since moved to very small village school with2 tiny playgrounds where we dont seem to have same playground troubles the entire staff team describe themselves as family and some are classroom assistants to none of the squables, rows being alone with 1 teacher overseeing lunch .

But the old school i assume still has same problem
8assistants to cover 300kids
head said more squabbles then any other school he worked at and many of the assitants actually tied up with supervising inside hall and that its hard to cover everything that goes on outside which as parent would worry me but theres superschols with nearly 1000kids how heck to they manage?

One school had 1 per zone and let ks1/ks2 roam round free range kids was way he put it.

It must depend on ratio, quality of staff and how well the staff commuicate.

StarDust was that a primary school? At my primary school we have one lunchtime supervisor per class of 30. I also have my lunch with my class so that I can help supervise (although I'm not paid for lunch breaks) so we have two adults to 30 children.

At my dc's primary schools, the majority of the Midday Assistants are either Learning Support Assistants, or parents of children already at the school.

NO WAY in a million years would I ever want one of the MDA 'parents' approaching me in any sort of formal capacity... Supervising children for one hour a day at lunch time does not act as a substitute for the training and qualifications that teachers have to have..

A number of them find it hard to be objective about their own 'little darlings' - god knows who would want their opinion on anyone elses children...

Disclaimer: view coloured by the fact that a number of our MDA 'parents' are right old busy bodies who just love that they've got an 'in' and think that that makes them official anyway...

Disclaimer Disclaimer: there are a number of very lovely MDA's at my DS's school who are kind and good natured - unfortunately, not all of them are and you can't have one rule for one etc. etc..

don't know why I have put parents as 'parents'... meant to portray some form of arched eyebrow delivery, but not quite making it - doh!

"Fairenuff" - yep that was a primary school.... some local authorities are cutting back on mid-days hugely - when I joined there were 8 of us covering 14 classes of 30 - it was a push - but by the time I left we were down to 4... due to the policy of not replacing support staff who leave and their "let's put our head in the sand and hope other staff will cover" policy.

I am glad my girls are at secondary now.

DS is 4 and possible ASD. he is in reception and I am concerned about he is managing play and social interaction. It is a really important part of the day for kids at primary age and actually "professionalising" it somewhat is not bad idea at all. If midday supervisors were trained and given specific info, almost IEPs for those kids who need it (ie a very small percentage) it could be of huge advantage. it could be facilitated through the teacher or SENCO or direct meetings, for which the parent would have to come in at an appropriate time (and I would have to take time off to do it, but would).

Unless a vast amount of money is going to be ploughed into the education system purely for staffing, it ain't never gonna happen.

I always assumed it was down to each school they have budget how much spent.

last school had 10classes 30 and 8 supervisors which does not seem enough.

Not sure about new school will need to find out but only 130kids in school and staggered lunch tiny hall. most are parents and have other roles and theres been one vacancy advertised for ages.

I wouldn't want to report to the parents, any big issues are reported to the lunchtime supervisor or direct to the teacher

I am confused about the whole professional bit, I appreciate that all schools are different but I am employed and paid by the county council and have the opportunity to attend training sessions. I am also first aid trained and need to sign a confidentiality agreement.

How much more professional does it need to be?

Not a snotty question...any exams, training, professional info would look good on my cv (should I ever decide to get off my butt and get a "proper" job, as I have been asked in the past)

Lunchtime supervisors are known as 'dinner nannies' here in the North East. It would be great if there role was more about facilitating games and interaction for those children who need / want it. Perhaps (hopefully) it is more like that than it was when I was at school, where the dinner ladies were like the Mafia!

Our lunchtime supervisors have been trained to facilitate games and interaction. The problem, as usual, is funding. They cannot be expected to give up their free time for training so money has to be found to pay for training.

However, in my school, the head teacher chooses to invest quite a lot in staff numbers and staff training because they are the best resource a school will ever have.

when I joined there were 8 of us covering 14 classes of 30 - it was a push - but by the time I left we were down to 4... due to the policy of not replacing support staff who leave and their "let's put our head in the sand and hope other staff will cover" policy

Starburst do other members of staff supervise children at lunchtime as well as the midday supervisors? 4 adults to 420 children is not safe and possibly not even legal.

In England there soon won't need to be worried about lunchtime supervisors talking to teachers because when gove removes the time directives on teachers they will be the lunchtime supervisors.

At the school I work in we have midday assistants who supervise the food side of things, but also play workers who arrange games, help develop social skills etc. (They have a "playworker" qualification) Also some of the statemented children have LSA support through lunchtime as well (dependent in needs identified in statement of course). The lunchtime staff always ensure they let the teacher know of any issues from lunchtime whether is of the X didn't eat his dinner variety or the A hit B variety. (most of them seem to have a notebook they jot things down in so they don't forget anything)

As fairenuff mentioned it is a legal requirement to provide safe staffing levels. I think the ratios vary depending on ages of the children. It also used to be a requirement that in the absence of a teacher a TA3 had to be present and at least half the staff had to be TA2s. Lunchtimes have always been covered by TAs as well as LTAs where I have worked as they usually don't have a break lasting the full lunchtime period.

There is NO legal requirement on staffing levels or teacher TA being present at lunchtime because lunchtime is not "within school hours"

School consists of a morning session and an afternoon session and children can go home for lunch if needs be.... I know not many schools allow it , and not many parents would like it either... but it is a throwback to the past and there is still the loophole there -

we went to the LA when it went down to 4 for 400 kids - they quoted the rules and regs to us, but the headteacher just said that there were ALWAYS staff in the staffroom, so the "safety" aspect was covered...

OMG madeofstardust if you are right that is awful. How can they get away with that. Surely most parents (and obviously some staff) think of school hours as being 9am till 3.30pm or thereabouts and expect adequate supervision for the whole time. There's a question for my HT tomorrow.

If something happened to one of the children during lunchtime through lack of supervision, the HT would be liable. The children are in his/her care until they are handed over to parents/carers.

One adult to 100 children is undoubtedly a health and safety risk.

but they do not see it as one adult to 100 children because there are 2 ladies in the office and 10ish teachers taking lunch in the staffroom.... there are 2 adults on the playground at all times

I don't think it will be many years before people start to see what a bad idea it is to herd so many children onto a big area of tarmac to be babysat for an hour a day while staff have a lunch break.

If someone tried to introduce it as new practice now there would be uproar.

The more progressive schools are beginning to make the provision more appropriate by providing more qualified staff, high quality adult led play, safe zones or rooms which are well supervised and opportunities to continue working in the classroom without the interruption caused by break times.

I think this will increase in time with staggered lunch times and staff breaks meaning lower numbers in the playground and increased supervision being added to the mix.

IMO it can't happen soon enough. Playgrounds in their rawest form are barbaric places which don't particularly support social skills and provide perfect environments for bullying.