Another AIBU about a MIL...!

[principalitygirl]

MIL lives a couple of hundred miles away. She's retired and DS - a toddler - is her only grandchild. We've generally got on well but since DS was born we've had a few tensions, mainly as I've found her a bit 'suffocating' as regards DS, sometimes acting more like his mum than gran at times. (e.g. she recently told me that she had a dream in which she was BF-ing DS...?! I made it clear that I found this a bit odd! She also always wants to have him to herself when she visits, or at least that's how I feel...)

She clearly adores DS though and last year, as a result of her very frequent visits to us, usually for two or three nights each time, and us making a few visits to her too she saw DS a total of 16 times, the last being at Christmas. She keeps count of the visits I should add, and tells me.

I posted a version of this post around Christmas but posted in an existing thread by mistake. She'd announced mid-family meal that she and DS have a plan to go to EuroDisney when he's five... I felt compelled to smile and say 'lovely' but instead said what felt which is that we should discuss it first and he'd probably need to be older than five. I also thought why can't we all go? The only person who responded to my post then thought I am being selfish and controlling...?
What do others think?

I know some grandparents couldn't give a toss so try to focus on the positives of how my MIL is, I want DS to have a good relationship with her of course and it's handy to have her babysit for the odd evening when she visits, but I really find it difficult to think that she's going to be visiting this often for the next 18 years or so....

I work PT and DS goes to nursery so timing the visits is tricky. Midweek isn't ideal but should I really be expected to spend one weekend a month visiting her or having her to stay? AIBU?

Re. the level of contact / frequency of visits: I think it totally depends on whether you're happy with it. As your DS gets older & starts doing other activities, & going to other children's parties - sometimes more than one in a w/end! - such frequent visits may not be practical. When that happens, will you be able to explain to your MIL that a particular visit isn't convenient, & will she be reasonable & understanding? I guess that's the key thing.

FWIW, we're a similar distance from my ILs & when our boys were toddlers we didn't see them as often as this. Visits were nearly always in school holidays, though that's largely because DH is a teacher. The ILs are also quite busy & have generally expected us to do the majority of the travelling.

I wouldn't be at all happy about the Euro Disney "plans", & would have to have a word -or get DH to do it - to make the point, kindly but clearly, that your MIL can't make plans to take your DS on holiday without consulting you, the parents. Mentioning it to your DS first & then saying that "they've" made the plans does sound a bit manipulative & could turn into a bigger problem in the future. Personally I would want to get some boundaries established fairly quickly. However lovely a grandparent is, it's not on for them to "make arrangements" with a child & then present it to the parents as a fait accompli.

I'm surprised she would share her breastfeeding dream with you &, again, that would make me feel uncomfortable. I suppose none of us can help what we dream about, but it does all hint at some sort of blurring in her mind between the roles of grandma & mum.

I'm not sure why some g'parents seem obsessed with the idea of getting the GC on their own, rather than everyone sharing happy family times together. In cases I know like this - & they involve my friends' own mums as much as MILs - it does unfortunately often signal issues ahead. The key questions here, as always, are about the relationship your DH has with his mum. Is there open, honest communication? Do you & he share a similar view of boundaries / ground rules? If so, I'm sure you'll be able to tackle any difficulties & your DS will be able to have a great relationship with his GM.

There was a thread recently exploring the reason why so much tension exists between mothers of sons and their son's wives. Here's a common example:

''I think part of the reason I find the visits hard is because it's me who has to spend so much time with her ... DH is at work during the day usually and has a regular evening commitment at least one evening that she's staying.''

This is the first thing that jumped out at me. Why isn't the DH at home while his own mother is staying? Right there we have a flash point.

Add on the PA out-loud visit counting ... and 16 times for 2 or 3 days in the space of a year sounds ok for someone living a long way away, btw ... and the struggle to have the boy to herself and you have plenty of scope for OP to be pissed off.

The holiday thing? I agree it's a long way off yet. SO although it is indicitive of how she sees the relationship developing it doenst mean it is going to come to pass. OP treat any talk about going to Disney in future as a family trip as a done deal. If she actually says something along the lines of 'oh, no, it's just me and GS', then you can say sweetly sorry, but no.

principalitygirl you are very silent about what your DH has to say about the matter

YANBU. That would drive me crazy - visits and the 'I'm taking him to...' She needs your permission as his parent and that's a really rude assumption. The dream sounds creepy.

Wow - thanks for all the replies!
I'm at work today but will reply properly later.

I cannot wait to take my DC to see Disney land and I have never ever been myself I would never let the GP take my DC I am too looking forward to it.

Just be up front and bolshy and say no, say no now, I will def be taking him...HOWEVER....what about lego land ( you wont be missing out on much there, long queues etc) or another theme park...

I don't think yabu about Disneyland. It's probably very well intentioned but she probably didn't realise that you'd want to go too.
The visits, I think it's very important for little ones to see extended family (where possible). It builds a supportive loving network for them. I also don't think its unreasonable (because the visits are few and far between) for her to want him to herself for a short while (an afternoon not the whole time). When I visit my mum I back right off and practically sit on my bum the whole time as I know she enjoys the run around - although I'm sure she's shattered when we go!!
When she visits me, it's slightly different as she's a guest but I do back off as visits are few and far between.

I can understand how you are feeling. I love my in-laws, but having them stay for a weekend can sometimes feel like a bit much, and that's just a couple of times a year, at most. Similarly for my DH with my mum.

Currently pregnant, and my mum has started negotiating terms for visiting already . Luckily, she has made a pretty good suggestion of visiting more often than she does currently, but for less time. So e.g. she'll travel up on a Saturday morning, leaving on Sunday lunchtime. Strikes me as ideal - a nice afternoon together, (eventually) a night of babysitting, and a lie in for me. Even my DH can't complain about that once per month.

So is there any way you could change the length/routine/timing of her visits to better suit you? E.g. If she can travel mid-week, can she come every week for one night, and do some free childcare (not everyone would want to do this... but sounds like she would love that).

I think you are Definitely Not BU. Apart from the Disney trip bit your situation sounds similar to mine & whilst I appreciate my Mil wanting to be a part of my daughters life I'm a bit of an independent anti-social cow myself & so resent being press-ganged into 'family time' every other fortnight by my (in my mind) over bearing Mil just because she doesn't have any other hobbies/anything else going on in her life and - in her words - has "waited a long time for this" (meaning having a baby grandchild, as if her own four kids were never babies and as if at 38 I clearly haven't waited a long time for my only child)... & like you OP my Dh is often out of the picture when they're visiting as he usually works weekends & evenings & so I usually end up having to do the Hostess with the Mostest act as well, not a role I slip into naturally while also trying to juggle a wakeful energetic toddler.... Anyway,, personal whine aside my advice to you is threefold: firstly, get your dh to man up and have a word about visit frequency, once a month is toooo often in my opinion, inlaws or blood family alike, & don't feel bad about 'depriving' your wee one of granny time, when I was growing up we saw our grandparents 4-6 times a year Max and felt time together was more special as a result (besides which if granny is mournful what's wrong with skype I say - this works fab with my own DM and makes for more regular & routine interaction); secondly, INSIST your Dh finds out when they're coming enough in advance to be ableto book the time off work & off his evening 'commitment' - it's his family not yours & I bet if you asked him to spend a couple days hanging out with your mum while you were out of the picture he'd run a mile! &/or thirdly, do as Google (above) suggested & let your surliness speak for you.... :) all of these have worked for me!! Good luck..!

BTW, soz if any of that's already been said - got well into my stride on the subject (it's clearly v. close to my heart) & now notice there's a tonne more posts than when I first read!! :)

I have thought about this a lot, this morning.
One of the things that DD and I identified about her issues with the IL's is that there is not the same natural flow that exists when I am there (I do a couple of days a week childcare at her home, while she is working from home)

I wonder if the problem with MILs staying is that the relationship hasn't moved onto a comfortable level of just 'being around' one another. Do you have to host ... or does she cheerfully make a cup of tea. tidy up supper dishes etc?
Does she feel free to 'help' in that way. Are you relaxed enough with her to allow her to do the things you would allow your own mother to do?

I am not for one instant suggesting that any issues with her staying are your fault, but rather wondering if its possible to identify the difference between easy visits with DMs and difficult visits with MIL's.

On a broader view ......taking personalities out of the equation (and assuming MILs are reasonable and not certifiable) ..... is there room to find a closer relationship if one can both relax more, and talk more?

Leaving all the other issues aside - does she know how much EuroDisney costs? That might put her off...

I don't think 16 times for 2-3 days is that much. Certainly not going into the unacceptable, however, I can see how this will tie you. I hate visitors

It partually depends on how she announced she'd seen him 16 times. If it was done in a "I'm really pleased I saw him so often" way then that's fine.
If it was done in a "not fair, I want to see him more" then I'd be stepping back slightly.

The Disney thing, I would get dh to say that

1. She doesn't announce that sort of thing, she asks you (both) quietly if you like the idea
2. She doesn't talk to him about such things until she's talked to you and you've okayed.
3. 5 may well be too young

and if it is the case:

1. You wish to take him to Disney yourself

My mil was keen to have dgc overnight. She doesn't live quite as far as your mil does. Her stipulation was they had to be out of nappies. Although all the dc were out of nappies at 2yo, we didn't accept the invite until we (and they) felt they would cope with being away. For mine dd1 was nearly 6yo, dd2 was just 5yo, and ds is 6.6yo and says he's only going if I go, which kind of defeats the purpose, so won't be going in the near future.

Joined this thread late so I may be missing something here... But doesn't the problem with the EuroDisney trip boil down to the simple fact that MIL hasn't collaborated with you principalitygirl basically, she just announces that she wants to take him over there herself and it seems like some master-plan exclusively between her and her DGC, a toddler (so he isnt a 12 yo for example, who can have a reasonably coherent conversation about it with his parents?)

If it were me, I would feel far more "engaged" about the whole thing, if the conversation had gone along the lines of it would be lovely when DGC gets a little older, to take him to Disneyland, how would you feel about that principality?"

What is more, she is making promises and raised expectations of a toddler, albeit her DGC, without any practical considerations to you as his DM. That's the wrong order of things! But thats just my opinion.

As for the weird bf dream, what would possess the woman telling you about some meaningless dream, what relevance has it to you, other than her maybe trying to make some point about how close she is to DS, and ... Her point is??

With all the emphasis on mother-child bonding on these boards, I'm surprised that people find it hard to understand why gps would like to have time alone with their gc.

Grannies (and Grandads) need to bond, too, and it's much more difficult to do if, in effect, you're only allowed supervised visitation. Neither you nor the dc can focus on each other, if mum is sitting there ready to jump in. There's also the implied lack of trust, that you'll do something wrong.

Grandparents also want to help the mum by giving her some time to herself. So let them push the pram to the park by themselves while you put your feet up, or take the toddler out for the afternoon. Then the visit feels like a treat and not a burden.

op I understand where your coming from. My mil is currently driving round with a buggy she bought for dd in her car boot for when she takes her out. She hasn't even got a full driving license. Over my dead body.

I've found that it's sometimes easier to smile and nod rather than go in to battle - until push comes to shove.

Regarding the trip to Disney land , it's fantastic , I took dd1 she loved it. When mil is next here , tell her how excited you all are at going. How you can't wait yo see dc face.

She will know exactly what she is doing, mine does . Just play daft.

Tell dh he has to arrange her visit while he is off.

Wish my kids could see their GP's the often instead of a few times a year at best, I wish they were still alive, able or interested enough to actually visit us.

By the time he's 5 you will be grateful for a break, unless you have serious safety concerns let her spend time with her grandson on her own, you do sound a bit controlling tbh, relationships with grandparent s are very important. The bf comment was a bit odd though....

Okay, here's what I have done in order to reduce feeling suffocated by my one time ever present ils.

1. I asked them to phone before coming over. Previously they used yi just turn up on their days off and sit in my house for hours. it got to the point where I would hide upstairs and hope the baby didn't cry and alert them to the fact I was home

2. I got dh to talk to mil and arrange visits on days that suit me. She still tries to come over at weekends (which suit her better) , but I am better at saying we have plans. In the interests of being fair I do sometimes 'give in' but I mostly do what suits me best now ( as I feel my mil has done during her own life)

3. I expect my dh to be here if she is visiting at the weekend. If he was at work and it was a weekday visit, then fair enough, I will entertain her. But no way would he be going out and doing his own thing if she was visiting. His mum, his job to be there.
   And regardless of whether other people would be okay wrt her taking him to Disney, she has no right to promise him that without asking you. I wouldn't allow it. It's disrespectful.

Regarding the bf dream - we all have weird dreams. Her fault was in sharing it with you. That sort of oversharing is typical of my mum. I wouldn't hold that too much against her.

My own ils tried very much to take over when I was a first time mum but you have to be prepared to challenge it and defend what you want. This is , after all, your family unit!

With all the emphasis on mother-child bonding on these boards, I'm surprised that people find it hard to understand why gps would like to have time alone with their gc. Grannies (and Grandads) need to bond, too, and it's much more difficult to do if, in effect, you're only allowed supervised visitation. Neither you nor the dc can focus on each other, if mum is sitting there ready to jump in. There's also the implied lack of trust, that you'll do something wrong.

This^^

YANBU.

Personally to have a house guest this regularly and be expected to be the one around and entertaining them when they are not my family would drive me mad.

The Disney thing would not be happening, simple as that. That's something I would love to do with my children and no one would come along and tell me what they had planned to do with my children without discussing it with me first.

She is starting to cross boundaries with this and it needs nipping in the bud I think.

Its also not unreasonable to make her visits less frequent. Its all very well people saying that her visit frequency is fine but when it involves staying for a few days a time rather than popping in? No, would get on my nerves.

With all the emphasis on mother child bonding on these boards, I'm surprised that people find it hard to understand why gps would like to have time alone with their gc. Grannies (and Grandads) need to bond, too, and it's much more difficult to do if, in effect, you're only allowed supervised visitation. Neither you nor the dc can focus on each other, if mum is sitting there ready to jump in. There's also the implied lack of trust, that you'll do something wrong

I could not disagree more profoundly. DGC and I adore each other and that relationship has been built primarily in the company of his mother. Frequent contact, as a family!
Do fathers not bond, because Mum is usually around when they are, through the maternity leave stage? Of course they do!
This is a GP perception of reality; a personal reaction regarding lack of trust and the comment that it feels like "supervised visitation' sums up an adult view of the situation. The GC has no such limitations.
GC will play and interact with complete freedom, certainly in their own home.
Its GP's who aren't acting freely, because they consider parental presence to be monitoring.

Why assume mum is ready to jump in if you are playing one-on-one?
Why not just get on and enjoy playing?

I think that having a house guest staying for 2 or 3 nights at a time once a month or more is too much. Not all house guests are easy to have around even if they are family - they don't always just blend in, and life often has to go on hold while they are there, and more mess and housework is created.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all - I think that it's nice to have a relationship with grandparents but this relationship is fine to be developed as a whole family. I think time alone with grandparents should be something that develops naturally over time not forced on the child's parents from birth because the GP feels that they can't have a meaningful relationship with the child just because the parents are around. I had a lovely relationship with my GPs mainly in the company of my parents.

I think that when GPs appear grabby over spending time alone with their GC, while apparently not caring about seeing their own children is just plain weird. I think if you keep up an interest in spending time with your own children and the people they have married, the relationship with the GC will follow without any need to force it.

I could not disagree more profoundly. DGC and I adore each other and that relationship has been built primarily in the company of his mother. Frequent contact, as a family!

Time alone. Not exclusively alone.

I am lucky. I see a lot of my DGC, mostly in the company of their mother and some weekends also my DH, their DF and occasionally wider family.

Doesn't mean I don't cherish the one-on-one time I get with them, or fun at the toddler group I take one to, on my own.
Many DGP on here actually childmind so they get lots of one-on-one by necessity.
I don't, but I still like to build a relationship alone alongside the one with their parents.

Nanny I also enjoy the one-to-one times but the point being made was that it was more difficult to bond in the 'family' situation - and I don't agree that it makes any difference.