Can't believe what I am reading...

[SmileItsANewYear]

Some people think that it's ok to give a child alcohol (as long as over the age of 5)

What the actual fuck?

I think I can kind of see this from both sides. My cousins and I used to sneak beers off the tables at our parents house party's. We were just being cheeky little sods. One of my cousins though did always go a bit over the top about things and, I'm not saying this is a direct cause or anything, he does have quite a big problem with alcohol now. I'm inclined to think that's more of a learned behaviour though because his dad (my uncle) has always drank heavily on a regular basis.

On the other hand, my parents always treated alcohol as a "in moderation" thing to have and didn't often drink unless it was a special occasion such as parties or holidays. In fact when I was around 8 we went to Devon on holiday and my parents developed a bit of a thing for the Scrumpy Jack cider down there. They let all us try it (kids ages ranged from 4-14) within reason. A couple of years later we went again and I got very tipsy on the old Scrumpy and had to be put to bed early. I then woke up in the middle of the night singing about needing a wee and carried on singing all the way to the bathroom. My parents had a relatively relaxed attitude about us trying these things out under their supervision (obviously within reason) and out of 7 children, they have raised none with alcohol issues.

But we don't take the same approach to smoking, do we? Or sex? That's what I don't understand. We can educate through talking about things without having to physically introduce them.

I talk to my DD about whatever she wants to talk about, when she wants to talk about, especially as she's now 12 and hitting puberty. I'll be exactly the same with my DS's when they want to talk - and DS1 already talks to me 'secretly' about girls at school.

We've discussed smoking and how bad it is for the body (their Grandad died of lung cancer and my Dad had a cancer scare related to smoking last year, so we've had open doors for all this), and some sex talk from DD.

But I don't see anyone saying 'well, I let them have little drag on my cigarette, it shows I'm relaxed about it, everyone else was having a cigar because it was Christmas, and DD/DS wanted to try a little too'.

And I know that's a daft example, but to me, the alcohol thing is the same. I can have a perfectly rational, calm, relaxed discussion with my dc about alcohol, alcoholism, binge drinking etc, without having to introduce any amounts of alcohol into it.

My nanna caught my aunt smoking and made her smoke 20. She thought she would be sick and put off after 5. Aunt smoked the lot!

That was in 70's I think.

Ii

I never refused to allow the DC to taste wine or beer when the subject arose. (Not overly often as we are quite light drinkers and vodka was reserved for date nights when we bothered to have them in the good old days...but I digress).
It was always followed by horrid face pulling (no, not the date nights).
Now Ds is 19 and doesn't touch alcohol, he doesn't like the taste.
Did is 12 and just thinks its yuck, would rather have a large ice cold milk.

I don't think smoking and alcohol are the same at all really. Smoking only has adverse effects, alcohol doesn't. Alcohol is part of a healthy lifestyle for many people.

i remember having a small sherry when the family drank alcohol at christmas, when i was a very small child. as a teenager (from just after my thirteenth birthday) i was allowed, encouraged even, to experiment with alcohol when with the family, trying new things until i found something i liked. when i hit upon brandy, i was allowed to drink it regularly but not enough to get drunk. consequently when i started going out with friends, i knew what i wanted to drink and how much i could take, and didn't get drunk.

I did say it was a daft example. But to me it's a bit like the parents who buy their dc cigarettes, or share their own, because 'they'll only do it anyway'. Or the ones who allow their underage teens to have sex in the house because 'I'd rather they did it here, than behind a pub somewhere'.

Where do we draw the line at 'no, this is for adults'. What's wrong with just talking about things?

As I've said, each to their own, it doesn't harm (so far as I know), but I don't agree with the reasons for giving children alcohol, when really there actually aren't any. It just seems odd that alcohol is given behind this 'oh, it's legal, they wanted some, we're trying to stop binge drinking'. I think it's a weak argument.

Well I won't mind if when adult dd has the odd drink now and then, but I'm hoping she won't smoke ever, so the two are not compatible.

For the record, I was one of those teens necking cheap beer or cider down the park or in the woods but if there was any glamour to it, it wore off back then and by the time I was old enough for clubbing the whole "go out and get trashed" was really not my thing. Now at the grand old age of 27 I don't particularly drink much at all.

My family has taken the same relaxed approach to alcohol with the next generation of DC and for the most part they've all declared it disgusting. Pretty sure that's because I gave my 10 yr old nephew whiskey, which he said "tastes like what petrol smells like!"

Yeah, I'm making a hash of it with the smoking comparison, so I'll leave off that.

I'm just saying that I don't understand people saying 'it gets them used to the taste/strength for when they're older, discourages binge drinking' when I don't think there's actually a case for that argument.

And I think the only reason people are so blase about it is because it's legal, so therefore it's 'ok'. It's still giving young children alcohol while their livers are still developing and I just don't understand why anyone would 'want' to do that.

If any of my dc asked for a glass of alcohol now (and they are 12, 8 and 5) I'd just say 'no, it's not for children' and they'd be fine with that. I'd be surprised if they asked in the first place tbh.

But then, I don't get the whole 'Christmas/birthday/celebration = alcohol' either, so I think I might be a tad unusual

Some people will have addictive personalities and some will not, there is no way of knowing which

The drinking culture is so, so different between the countries.

I think the OP meant 'Namechange' when she said 'leave'

I smile when it's new year & I like to make every day count. Just sayin'

LtEve you reprobate. I definitely count you as one of the 'regulars'.

The thing is moderate drinking is not bad for you. Moderate smoking is. It's not because drinking is legal and smoking is not at all.

You wouldn't encourage a child to smoke because there are no health benefits. It's only going to make you sick eventually.

Encouraging a healthy, non-binging attitude towards drink is a good thing.

All the friends I knew who went mad with drinking at 15 were never allowed any at home, in a controlled environment.

The difference is that nicotine is much more highly addictive than alcohol. You can become addicted to nicotine very very easily. Also moderate or low nicotine use is still harmful to your health in a way that moderate alcohol use is not.

Similarly any exposure to sexual intimacy would be very harmful to a child.

A glass of orange juice probably has the same alcohol content as a sip of wine but we aren't concerned about that being a danger.

There's booze in orange juice? I have none. What about cranberry?

I must admit I do worry about the kids getting communion wine at our church. I suspect the priest makes it himself and that it may lead to blindness or something. It doesn't taste like any wine I've ever come across before, more like pure alcohol. He doesn't even let you sip it, he dips the wafer in the tiniest amount and it's enough to make my head spin. I reckon it would be good for getting old paint off.

Yep. Around 0.1% by volume but can be a bit higher due to natural fermentation depending on how old the oranges were when squeezed.

Don't know about cranberry
Anyway I figure a whole glass of orange juice could easily be the equivalent of a sip of something much stronger.

WTAF?! Orange juice does not contain any alcohol! How stupid is that?

I think they warn people in countries with very strict no alcohol when driving laws that theoretically large amounts of orange juice might show up on breath tests. I fear it would be a hopeless way to get sozzled though.

fshs8813.wpengine.com/proceedings-o/1971-vol-84/217-222%20(DAVIS).pdf

It's not a very interesting read I'm afraid.

Westie, I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination but am wondering where your church is and could I come round for seconds?