To not go on this holiday

[theimposter]

My DPs family have been planning a trip away as a large group for several years. He has 2 kids and they have all been looking forward to it for ages. However this trip is really expensive and not something I would ever choose to do. I earn a lot less than DP and although my parents gave me a generous cheque for Christmas I am worried that I may need this money to cover the mortgage on my house as my tenants are moving out soon and I intend to sell it but it may take a while. Being self employed means an extended holiday hits my pocket too. I don't think it has gone down well that I said I don't want to go but even if I used my Christmas money I would feel it was a waste not using it to go somewhere I actually want to go and I resent that we have to go on so many family things and don't get much holiday time to ourselves without his parents etc.

His kids and family will be upset but even if he paid towards me going I know it would be put on the 'money owed' list and I don't like being in debt. He is very money orientated and sees what I do for work as not very important and even though I work hard at it I will never earn loads. He thinks I should do more 'womanly' tasks despite the fact that I also work long hours and I don't feel it is 'our' house as was very much 'his' before we got together. I am meant to be selling my house so we can get a bigger place together. He keeps dangling the idea of getting engaged at me but he just makes excuses about it and why he hasn't asked yet that put me down and really makes me feel quite insecure about our relationship. I feel he measures our entire relationship on money and housework and doesn't appreciate the many other things I have changed in my life or what I do for the kids as it isn't a measurable thing. Help.

You be crazy to buy a house with him without a full commitment, not a dangling engagement carrot.
He looks down on your work as it isn't as worthy as his, and pays it lip service and helps out slightly to make it seem like he's OK with it.
I get along 80-95% with many people but I wouldn't want to be married/engaged/or live with them.
Glad you aren't going on the Holiday, you should make sure to save your money and see to yourself just as he does.
I'd move back to the house and use a bedroom as work space if need be.

Seriously - he is making his own DCs save to pay entrance fees, I thought I had heard it all. That is not normal behaviour. No reasonable parent would expect their DCs to use their birthday and christmas money to pay for a holiday - unless it's Universal studios I suppose.

Yikes, I said the 'pay for it out of their pocket money' jokingly, but he really is doing that! That is a mindset of someone who is constantly adding up what everyone around him owes him and making sure he squeezes it out of them somehow.Even his own kids! However lovely he might be in other ways I don't think I could live with that sort of person. You can only expect a worse deal than his children, so where is that likely to leave you?

Wait. He wants (1) you to be "womanly" in what you do for work and in which jobs/responsibilities you take on at home.

But he wants (2) you to earn more, and looks down on what you do for work b/c it doesn't earn as much as what he does.

I don't like the sound of him at all.

You do realize that (1) and (2) are completely incompatible?!? I am pretty sure it will be impossible for you to earn big money doing "womanly" work. Unless to him womanly work includes e.g. bond trading.

So in effect he's setting you up to never be good enough -- either you will not be womanly enough or you will not be earning enough money. Or, most likely, both.

Yes I have pointed this out to him. Perhaps he has some ideal that he would meet someone who is superwoman, supermodel looks (not me!) and can work full hours, bear children and keep house. As long as I have enough to be comfortable I don't hanker after expensive things. His DCs mum doesn't earn much so she won't be contributing to their costs for the trip. They went years ago (again as a family en masse) and he paid for her to go when they were still together but there is no way in hell she could have paid for herself. I think it is some way of teaching the kids the value of money but yes it seemed odd to me but I just put it down to how different families work...

From your posts i think you do want to LTB but what concerns me is that you have said that you cant move back home because of the 'office' space.

I get that, but is this the only barrier? If so i would leave, i know renting an office space is pricey but you say your work is dirty and messy - could you do it from a shed? (my dad has just bought a huge shed which is fab, loads of space for all his gubbins and for a chair and kettle). Do you have any friends with a shed or garage that they dont use? Can you condense your living space (ie combine your bedroom as a studio lounge and use the lounge as a workroom? - or vice versa; even just in the interim)

You sound like you are almost there, so don't 'not go' just because of office space.

As everyone has said - the holiday is the least of your problems.

Good luck - make 2014 a better year for you

I need a work shop! And if it doesn't work out that is what I will be looking for; a house with a converted garage or similar. By the way he never married his ex either but they were wildly incompatible. I get on with her well and their break up was not financially messy as she couldn't contribute anyway.

By the way thanks all; I know it can be a scary place in here but your replies have all been sincere and thoughtful. I really appreciate it!

Hmmm. The money thing seems established with his ex too. She bore his children but it is described as 'he paid for her to go'. Of course he bloody should have done. He's not good at sharing is he. However, I do think it's very simplistic to say LTB as he clearly has some good qualities. Could you move back to your house, still keep on the relationship but not actually live together. That way, if he wants you, he has to do some running. Could you rent out a room in your house and then perhaps rent a workshop using that money. It does sound stressful running a messy sounding business from his home and pehaps if you removed yourself from this situation you could distance yourself from his stereotyping and just enjoy the good things without the hassle.

The plan is that if we moved we would look for a place with suitable indoor or heated garden space for my work and better suited to having animals. My house should I go back to it just is impossible with the size and shape of equipment I have as the only suitable office space I have is upstairs and it is too heavy to get up there so whatever happens I need to sell up. I do feel the arguments over cleaning etc would improve significantly if these things could be factored in. I did the whole renting rooms out before we met and just got fed up of having other people in my house and dealing with dramas all the time. It just feels like a step backwards should we stay together but live separately iyswim

I get on with her well and their break up was not financially messy as she couldn't contribute anyway.

You mean that she's a nice woman and despite sacrificing her career to raise his babies she 'couldn't contribute' and when they split he gave her nothing?

OK, I am never this poster but I have read your replies twice OP and I can't help think that if a woman wrote the following, she would be told she had a cocklodger...

"I have a BF who lives in my house, doesn't do a lot of housework, has a messy, dirty job that takes up lots of time and space but doesn't bring in enough money to pay for that space. He hasn't paid rent, which we agreed in advance, for months and wants us to get married but I'm unsure.

He is great with my kids and works hard but I'm concerned. He says he is committed to a family life but doesn't want to come on a family holiday. I would loan him the money but he doesn't want to have to pay me back. Plus he owes me all that rent as well. I just think he should either pay his way, contribute more to the household, or get a better job."

Having said that fuck 'womanly jobs'.

Good reply Mrs Pratchett; yes this is why I try to see it from both sides and realise my situation isn't great. The reason I have not been able to contribute to rent recently is because my part time hours were cut so this has affected my income. My new start up has had the inevitable costs involved with any new venture and it has been successful so far but I have had some teething issues with the manufacturing which has meant I lost money on some orders before Xmas. Like I say I don't think it will ever make me lots of money but it should hopefully continue to grow and make a reasonable income combined with PT work. My other original business has been difficult due to the trade I work in being pushed out by cheap online companies which is why I have looked to start something else working for myself to supplement it plus the PT job. That's not just me that's the current market I'm afraid; it's a dying trade. I will have plenty to bring to the table when I sell my house (more than DP has) which the plan was to combine forces so to speak. It's just a rough time at the moment and hence I do not want to owe money for a holiday that I've not been involved in planning etc. I know why he gets annoyed but it is a bit Catch 22 as all my money is tied up in my house and until he commits and we use our joint money to buy a more suitable house I can't do much. I am hoping my PT job hours will be increased again but I am self employed through them also so don't get holiday pay etc. I will be using some of my Xmas money to pay back the rent for past few months so will be a bit more on an even keel hopefully. I have looked and even applied for other PT jobs to supplement income even more but there is not a lot round here that doesn't involve weekends and evenings which isn't helpful for when we have the kids and I gave up a previous job involving weekends as he felt like we didn't see each other enough. Even full time work wages are very disproportionate to living/housing costs here so even if I gave up both my businesses and my PT job I would never match earning-wise what he does as his stuff is very specialised.

Lottie, they were very young when they met and she has never had a career as such. She is doing well enough now but he encouraged her to work rather than her giving anything up and paid for her car and various other things.

I think he sounds horrid. I wouldn't marry him. How controlling and unloving he sounds. I certainly wouldn't pander to the holiday. His family is probably as self-absorbed as he is. Ignore it.

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around his attitude. And what "womanly tasks" are. Certainly if he wants you to come on the vacation, he would pay your way and not bill you for it later.

Have you billed him for the "womanly" tasks and childcare you've been performing? And don't forget mileage for taking his kids to school. Perhaps you'd come out ahead on the vacation. ;)

OP if you do stay living with him, have you agreed how the joint house ownership & finances will be split, give it sounds like you will be contributing more equity. If it is say 60:40, will he expect you to pay 60% of the mortgage? Will he factor in the value of your housekeeping duties? It sounds like his ex's contribution wasn't valued at all.

He sounds such a tight wad it will be a good idea to get it clear and in writing beforehand. In fact I wouldn't buy a house with this character unless he had committed enough to marry you - then all contributions monetary and otherwise would be taken into account on any split.

I am an accountant and well remember two clients who weren't married but had set up a business together. She hadn't noticed that he owned 90%, and when they split that is what he kept, despite her 50% contribution to a very profitable business... He was also very keen on money.

Please please please don't merge your finances until after you're married. And I'd also be advising that you should think twice about marrying this man. He sounds like a sexist domineering twat, tbh.

But there's no accounting for tastes and we only read words on the Internet, so of course there may be a whole lot more to your relationship.

But whatever, please DON'T give up your financial independence. Legally, there is no such thing as a "common law marriage" and from what you've said here, it's highly likely that, in the event if a break up, you would find yourself royally screwed financially.

I can't bear to see it when women make themselves financially dependent without legal security.

If I were you I would:

• sell your house
• pay him any back rent / anything else you owe him, so you're quits
• buy or rent a small flat for you, with space you can use for business, or another solution (eg rent space, get a place with a garden where you can out a big shed, get a place with a garage)
• leave him, or if you want to stay with him, insist on respect and equal terms and don't go any further until you get it.

Someone who works, you work, yet they expect you do do the "womanly" housework because you are a woman, is not a good option for a future and that's aside from anything else you've mentioned.

Also MrsTP, while I see your point in reversing the roles, I don't think OP should be expected to go on a holiday that was planned before she came along, that will cost her money she doesn't have and that is a "family" holiday i.e. for related people. If I was a single parent with a new partner (i.e. not the father of my DC) I wouldn't drag him on a pre-planned family holiday unless he really wanted to.

Not looking/sounding good is it... I am very wary of combining forces money wise. Particularly after the last debacle with ex over my house. Marriage isn't the be all and end all to me but having said that I do want stability and to know where I am a bit more long term and am starting to get fed up of people asking why we aren't engaged yet. His 'saying it like it is' and 'if you just's' is starting to get on my wick. Clearly I have some big decisions to make in the next few months. Not quite sure I have the emotional strength to go through it all again though.

But you also need to consider if you have the emotional strength for a longer-term, committed relationship that also looks as if it could involve a lot of controlling behaviour/EA and possibly financial abuse - and which, since you obviously do have self-respect, you might want to leave eventually anyway.

If he's this controlling now, what might it be like when he's got you more involved and has more power over you?

I don't doubt he's lovely and you have fun sometimes. Controlling, self-centred people are often like that, or they wouldn't draw anyone in. If these types were out-and-out vile from the start no one would ever get themselves into a sticky situation with them.

Why not have a chat in confidence with his ex about their marriage/what advice she would give you? Ask her to be honest with you, she sounds nice.

Thank you MadameBigToes. I don't really want to speak to her about it as it might get back to him and from previous chats to her I know she was pretty miserable as he was a total workaholic back then. She is less driven than I am so I expect she felt quite downtrodden. That's the problem isn't it; to find someone sparky and vibrant you often get bad bits associated to that type of character. I don't think I could live with a doormat type myself though and would rather have a 'fiery' relationship (within reason!) than a bland and uninteresting one!

He wants you as chief coat and drinks holder :) at your expense ! Those places are horrendous if you are not a participant . I would also ask about your lovely Times - are they easy times for him because everything is on his terms? How about you ask him to spend the equivalent money and time doing something just you like?