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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To point out yet again to the geographically challenged of Britain....

269 replies

AnnabelleLee · 31/12/2013 11:52

THAT northern Ireland is in the UK. Ireland is an entirely separate country. Like,properly different,with its own currency and culture and laws and all that.
FFS.

OP posts:
worldcitizen · 31/12/2013 13:42

tarantula thanks for that very informative response. So, I actually was taught the exact opposite, as a non-Brit and non-Irish...

Have that even in my school books (from ages ago)....

so thanks for clarifying for it NOT being a standard geographical term worldwide

treaclesoda · 31/12/2013 13:44

I'd be inclined to take the Irish constitution and the Good Friday Agreement as indications of what the country should be called because to me they are the least contentious. If you ask 10 random people in the street in Ireland or Northern Ireland you might get ten different answers. Very elderly people from unionist backgrounds still often refer to Ireland as the 'Free State' because that's what they were taught it was called when they were at school and the name has stuck in their heads. It doesn't make them right though.

QueenStromba · 31/12/2013 13:45

Is anyone else here actually Irish?

I'm from Dublin and in school there were always 32 counties in Ireland and 26 counties in the the Republic of Ireland.

limitedperiodonly · 31/12/2013 13:46

worra my friend's granddad had a cat called Nimrod which she thought was weird batshit old man stuff, but because of years of Bible study I instantly realised was because he's the mighty hunter.

Thanks treaclesoda. But if you were an Irish speaker (see, I know not to use the word Gaelic Grin) what would you say? This person's only language is English but she's very proudly Republican. Tiresomely so, IMO.

I'm from a mixed Anglo-Irish, Protestant/Catholic background living in England so I feel qualified to talk but I do tread carefully.

she's a bigot though and a stupid one at that as if there was any other kind.

treaclesoda · 31/12/2013 13:47

I'm from N Ireland stromba and I was taught exactly the same as you.

Original poster
AnnabelleLee · 31/12/2013 13:49

So was I,but I can tell the difference between politically based opinion and a stone cold fact.

OP posts:
JanineStHubbins · 31/12/2013 13:49

I've heard dyed-in-the-wool republicans also use 'Free State', treacle.

The only times I've ever heard 'Eire' used is by vairy posh English people, who invariably mispronounce it as 'Air'.

treaclesoda · 31/12/2013 13:50

limited tricky question, I think! Personally I can't see why a non Irish speaker would use the term Eire, just because to me it's illogical. Is your friend the sort of person who would visit Par-ee instead of Paris? Wink

worldcitizen · 31/12/2013 13:50

Well Queen I can totally see that froma political and historical standpoint...

My Catholic Irish friends in N.I. also very often refer to N.I not as Nrthern Ireland but as the North of Ireland instead...

But they still would agree that officially they are Northern Irish in Northern Irelan in the UK.
And they would refer to themselves as irish and Catholic, even the ones who have chosen a British/UK passport instead of the one from the ROI...

So, yes there is a difference what political and personal attitudes are about semantics and self-descriptions and the official UN ones etc. like AnnabelleLee already tried to point out (I think?)

tarantula · 31/12/2013 13:52

I was educated in Ireland. I was taught that the official name of my country was Ireland and that it was generally called the republic of Ireland so as to distinguish it Ireland the island.

SlatternismyChristmasname · 31/12/2013 13:52

Thank you OP, it maddens me how many people my in laws still refer to coming over to Ireland every time they visit. I have to correct them EVERYTIME.

Moln · 31/12/2013 13:53

After reading through this thread it's not at all obvious why so many people aren't sure what's what is it.

treaclesoda · 31/12/2013 13:54

Janine that's interesting, I had always thought that Republicans found the Free State thing quite offensive, because they felt that the Free State was a compromise forced on them against their will at the time of The Treaty.

Bloody hell, I studied this stuff for years at school and university and it just goes to show that you can only learn so much from a book!

limitedperiodonly · 31/12/2013 13:54

I'm from Dublin and in school there were always 32 counties in Ireland and 26 counties in the the Republic of Ireland

I went though a stage in my teens of referring to the 26 counties QueenStromba.

I realise now I was being a prat who was trying to invest her boring Essex life with a bit of romance.

Nothing wrong with using those terms, if you understand the implications, which I'm sure you do.

But I didn't and my heritage means that I should have thought more carefully.

worldcitizen · 31/12/2013 13:54

Slattern what are they supposed to say??? They are visiting you in Northern Ireland?

BillyBanter · 31/12/2013 13:55

I like this video.

Surely I can talk about Ireland? Ireland is an island called Ireland, no?

JanineStHubbins · 31/12/2013 13:55

treacle It's a means of denigrating the 26 county state, denying that it is a true republic, because in their eyes only a 32 county republic qualifies for that title. 'Stater' was a well-known term of abuse in republican circles in the 1920s/30s/40s.

SlatternismyChristmasname · 31/12/2013 13:55

If they we revisiting Ireland they would be visiting a different country to the one I live in. I live in Northern Ireland.

treaclesoda · 31/12/2013 13:56

my last comment isn't sarcasm by the way, I genuinely am learning stuff here!

JanineStHubbins · 31/12/2013 13:56

Don't worry, I understood! Smile

treaclesoda · 31/12/2013 13:59

it's quite ironic Janine then that some loyalists would use the term 'free state' thinking it's a bit offensive and that they're getting a dig in, when actually it's a Republican term too!

I think my head is going to melt here Grin

worldcitizen · 31/12/2013 14:00

I know, I know, but I think it's not uncommon also to shorten and just say I am going over to ireland...it's the island and I am sure, they do know exactly you're in N.I.

I am in germany and I often refer to my visits to the UK as I am going over to Britain.
I say that when I fly into one city, maybe Manchester or London and stay in England and then go up Scotland and vice versa...

I also refer to N.I as Ireland just to shorten it... no political or emotional reasons behind it.

JanineStHubbins · 31/12/2013 14:01

Yep, maybe somewhere in the middle there's a common ground where they all can meet and chant 'Free State' together...

Original poster
AnnabelleLee · 31/12/2013 14:02

So, yes there is a difference what political and personal attitudes are about semantics and self-descriptions and the official UN ones etc. like AnnabelleLee already tried to point out (I think?)

Thank you, perhaps I can stop banging my head against the wall now. Hmm

There is only one official name of the country. It is Ireland. It is this whether you like it or not,wherever you are from, whatever you personally think it should be called, what you were taught at school or home, or anything else. It, simply, IS.
It is the internationally recognised legal name of the country comprising of 26 counties. It is also the name of the entire island that northern ireland also sits on,but this does no affect the former point whatsoever.

OP posts:
MaryzBoychildCheeszuzCrizpz · 31/12/2013 14:04

Has anyone mentioned yet that British does not mean English. And that English does not mean "from London"?