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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just back from doctor's and am fuming and livid

340 replies

deckofcards · 30/12/2013 11:41

Before I write a formal letter of complaint, am I being unreasonable?

Went to doctors' before Christmas for a routine appointment and repeat prescription. Needed a blood test and to have ears syringed (have been going deaf). Dr gave me print out and told me to make an appointment with the nurse. Went to reception and asked for an appointment with the nurse which is what I thought I had been given.

Arrived this morning, having fasted. Called in by a sweet enough girl although she wasn't wearing uniform and didn't properly introduce herself as a nurse or anything else. She took my arm and sweetly put it on a pillow, told me I had very deep veins (which I know but it isn't usually a problem but sometimes a doctor has been called), tried the other arm using elasticated cuffs that were clearly broken because they kept popping open and she later said they were no good. She gave me a glass of water to hydrate me better for the veins (which I would have thought would take more than a mintue to work). Still no joy so she went to get a colleague to help her.

The colleague was the receptionist who leaned over me reeking of tobacco and tried to find a vein. I questioned this and was told she was also a trained phlebotomist. The original one then said they would have to give up as the vein wasn't pronounced enough but she would start on my ears. I asked if she was a qualified nurse and she said, no a health care worker.

I declined her offer to deal with my ears and said that I would prefer an appointment with a fully trained practice nurse.

I went out to make another appointment and have been offered one for today with the proper nurse for my ears and have another on Thursday morning for blood tests. I am extremely grumpy that my time has been wasted.

Am I wrong in thinking that if I am told to make an appointment with the nurse and ask for an appointment with the nurse I should be given an appointment with the nurse or advised either when making the appointment that it is not with a nurse. I certainly should not embark on treatment without being appraised of the full facts.

It was clear that the person I saw this morning was not capable or experienced, it did nothing to inspire confidence that she got the girl off the reception desk to help her (and who reeked of tobacco) and I left feeling cross, upset, disrespected and messed about. I would have thought as a minimum of a health care assistant is expected to take blood or syringe ears (and I think the latter is more of an issue actually) then there should be a fully qualified nurse on the premises to supervise, not the stinky girl from reception.

Is this really what healthcare has come to and surely I'm not being unreasonable to expect the tin to contain what it says on the label.

I am minded to make a formal complain to the surgery but needed to get that off my chest first and to take some feedback - hopefully from those who work in surgeries. Oh, and the receptionist/phlebotomist told me it wasn't just my time that was wasted from their side the healthcare assistant now had 30 minutes with no patient because she wasn't doing my ears. My response to that was that had I been told my appointment wasn't being made with the practice nurse in the first place that wouldn't be the case because I wouldn't have made the appointment.

Sorry - very long but I feel better for a rant - and even more that the entire episode was totally out of order. But am I being Unreasonable to think that.

OP posts:
grumpyoldbat · 30/12/2013 13:07

Oh btw I've had doctors turn me into a pin cushion trying to get blood out of me. I've seen all hcp who take blood struggle at to get blood from someone 100s if times. Some people are harder to bleed than others. Its just one of those things.

paxtecum · 30/12/2013 13:07

OP: You are so stubborn by not admitting that you are BU.
As has already been said, why ask if am IBMU if you are so blooming well convinced that you are not?

You could always apply to be a patient at a different practice.

HoHoHopelessAtNamingBabies · 30/12/2013 13:08

Sorry, my post was in answer to the OP questioning why she or he was being labelled a time waster. Should have clarified.

penguinsforever · 30/12/2013 13:09

Yabu. I've had blood taken by HCA before, they take it all the time so are often better than a nurse or GP. If you'd had a nurse or GP try to take the bloods and failed would you complain about them too?

BookFairy · 30/12/2013 13:10

I find this quite interesting as I have recently had 2 blood tests done at my GP surgery. The first was done by a HCA who struggled to get any blood out. The second was done by a nurse who was done and dusted in 6 minutes. The first time I didn't know that I was not seeing a trained nurse. I have deep veins and have regular tests so it can be tricky for those who are less experienced. Very frustrating to waste time and it is unnerving to not have full confidence in the professional weilding a needle.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog · 30/12/2013 13:11

FFS get a grip.
What makes you think she was not qualified to take your bloods or syringe your ears.

Did you know Phlebs are not trained nurses? They have specific training for taking bloods. It's not bloody hard.

Did you also know that on most hospital wards some nurses can't take blood? They have to call the phlebs/nurse prac/doctor to do it.

If that HCA wasn't trained to syringe your ears or take blood, you wouldn't have had an appt with her.

She's not untrained. She's just not a fully qualified nurse. There's a difference.

TossedSaladsAndScrambledEggs · 30/12/2013 13:14

Some people do have deeper veins than others.

Arteries all follow in similar course in most people. However the venous system varies a lot from person to person.

Veins can be less prominent for a number of reasons ie when you are ill, dehydrated, swollen or even overweight.

Many very skilled people may struggle to find a vein now and then. My anaesthetist did when I was having my cs. I didn't demand to see her credentials and refuse to let her do the procedure! Smile

Joysmum · 30/12/2013 13:14

I've never had anyone successfully get blood from my right arm.

It sounds to me like you have cause for complaint because the people who were trying to help you did not introduce themselves and their roles. That should be standard procedure. That then triggered your negativity at every thing else that happened.

TaillessChicken · 30/12/2013 13:14

If you were told to see a nurse by the GP then it's not unreasonable to expect to be seen by a nurse. Other than that, YABU.

Xfirefly · 30/12/2013 13:15

just because she couldn't take blood from you doesn't mean she was inexperienced. I do agree that the smelling of tabaco is unacceptable.

whilst pregnant no midwife was able to take blood from me. was always sent to phlebotomy . also in hospital drs who were used to taking blood and putting in canulas struggled with me. if you got rubbish veins then it's something you have to deal with. to deny her not doing the ears is BU as someone could have had the time instead

Wellthen · 30/12/2013 13:15

Balloon why do you assume that the receptionist wasn't also employed to do blood tests? As you have said yourself, it isn't worth the nurses job to have an unqualified person doing it. I really doubt she would get the receptionist if that wasn't normal practice.

OP you said yourself you have deep veins, its completely unfair to use this against the poor HCA.

As far as I can see, your only gripe is with her manner - she didn't introduce herself and she didn't explain that the receptionist was trained. I would feel that she could do better but I wouldn't describe her as unprofessional and I agree that you have wasted her time. By the sounds of it, you were also quite rude.

You saw a qualified member of staff - to demand a higher level of qualification when it simply isn't needed is unreasonable and snobby. There is no reason to inform you that you're seeing a HCP because it makes NO difference.

grumpyoldbat · 30/12/2013 13:17

IME the healthcare assistants are in many cases more experienced at phlebotomy as the spend more of their time doing it. In fact where I work it's them who are called if a nurse is struggling to get blood as they are usually better.

lottieandmia · 30/12/2013 13:17

Generally I think YANBU - I wouldn't feel very confident for someone to syringe my ears if they hadn't been able to take blood from me. If you made an appointment with a nurse then you should have seen a nurse. If the practice needs to assign someone else to the task then you should be told at the time of the appointment booking.

The NHS may be in trouble but that doesn't mean a complete decline in service is ok. At what point should we start worrying? At my GP practice this kind of thing never happens and everything is absolutely clear at the time of the appointment making.

AuntieMaggie · 30/12/2013 13:17

A nurse isn't necessarily qualified to syringe ears and the HCW was clearly qualified to do so otherwise you wouldn't have been given an appointment with her... she was qualified to both take your blood and syringe your ears but because your blood couldn't be taken you wouldn't have your ears syringed? YABU

I have many blood tests done due to complicated medical issues and sometimes it just can't be done (or it can but with a lot of pain and suffering) nobody's fault its just difficult.

MrsDeVere · 30/12/2013 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TossedSaladsAndScrambledEggs · 30/12/2013 13:19

Also how do you think the less experienced ones become experienced?

Presumably there are a load if less important people for them to practice on first...

Although the poor hca's confidence is now probably shot to pieces so she may make even slower progress...

HaroldTheGoat · 30/12/2013 13:20

I have no problem with HCA taking blood.

Even if I did, I think you are overreacting. You didn't want a suitably qualified person doing it, you complained, they gave you a nurse.

Don't get it.

HoHoHopelessAtNamingBabies · 30/12/2013 13:21

Comparison of one nurse and one HCP is futile in supporting a debate on who should carry out a procedure, as is anything relying on anecdote. For example my experience would counter that of Bookfairy (which I know was only being offered as illustration as to why she is interested in this topic). I've had several blood tests in the last 40 weeks as today is my due date for DC2. The only time I've had a problem with bloods taken in my whole life has been at my gestational diabetes test when te nurse admitted she was struggling as she was only covering for a phlebotomist.

Original poster
deckofcards · 30/12/2013 13:22

Well, if I was so jolly well wrong, it strikes me as rather odd that they were extremely willing to make alternative appointments for me with the practice nurse. Interesting that the practice didn't tell me I was being unreasonable this morning.

In response to those who lump together HCWs and practice nurses I wonder how the practice nurses feel about that. About 10 years ago we had a lovely practice nurse in whom one could have confided if one had a problem or sensitive health issue; one couldn't do that now and the service is hugely less holistic. Appointments with her never took much time either - she was professional, nice, caring, quick and reassuring. I think it's a great shame that has disappeared.

I don't chose to have an underlying health problem yet my practice writes to me all the time offering me 20-30 minute appointments with the practice nurse to screen for illnesses I probably don't have and to weigh and measure me which I can do myself. Now that is a waste and yet the same practice nurse doesn't seem to have the time to do the things I actually need from a health point of view.

My time is as important as the time of the nurses and the doctors and the healthcare workers and actually I think it will be a good thing when the NHS stops being free at the point of delivery. That really will stop the time waster and it will also mean that those who only try to source what they actually need might be treated a lot better both clinically and socially because if they aren't they might not write the cheque.

OP posts:
Mabelandrose · 30/12/2013 13:24

Just move on op. I can see your point, but it hardly seems worth a complaint!

HaroldTheGoat · 30/12/2013 13:24

So what your going to bill them for your time?

How daft.

They sound like a very accommodating and well staffed practice to me, so stop bloody moaning.

Pooka · 30/12/2013 13:25

YABU.

I regularly give blood.The blood isn't taken by nurses. That would be inappropriate since the nurse would be better placed elsewhere in the NHS system.

Sometimes the blood donation is easy and sometimes it is hard. Worst time for me has been when a midwife took blood. Just one of those things. Most of the time for bloodtests here we have to go to outpatients where the phlebotomists do the tests. They do it all the time and do a very good job.

When ds was 3 weeks old he needed many bloodtests. The consultants called in phlebotomists to do it having failed when they tried themselves.

Your whole tone is rather entitled and incredibly patronising, making assumptions about qualifications and experience. And honestly? The phlebotomist at the surgery was brought in to assist when she was not ordinarily booked in to take blood. But you seem to expect her to provide details of qualifications and to be uniformed up. Who cares whether she smells of smoke? Would you be complaining if she was drenched in chanel No5 (which actually makes me heave)?

trinity0097 · 30/12/2013 13:25

Receptionists sometimes get it wrong when booking appointments, I asked for one the other day, for Christmas Eve, to have a dressing changed, I asked for it to be with 'the nurse for a dressing change'. 2 hours later the health care assistant rang me and said the appointment had been made with her rather than the nurse and could I come in 30min later so the nurse could see me.

I very much doubt that you would have got to the appointment if the person doing it wasn't able to do the task.

I had a GA recently and the anaesthetic 2nd in command guy couldn't get a vein in either hand so had to go in via my inner elbow, 20min later. Wasn't his fault! Didn't make me jump up and down and demand the lead anaesthist!

Pooka · 30/12/2013 13:27

Well if you are so keen to be paying at point of delivery may I suggest that you go private now?

Angry
GoodKingWencesLACK · 30/12/2013 13:28

tbh if I was told to make an appointment with the practice nurse, I would assum it means the nursing team, so could be anyone from the HCAs up to the Nurse Practitioner, depending on what I was seeing them for. Same as when I am told to make an appointment with the GP, it could be any one of the registered GPs in our practice and not my own designated GP, unless I specify otherwise.

I think you were being a bit unreasonable and probably came over as a stroppy old bat. You have already said that you have difficult veins. I do too and have had horrible experiences trying to part with my blood in the past. Give me a trained HCA or phlebotomnist over a nurse/GP/consultant any day. And just because she struggled with your veins does not mean she wasn't competent to carry out the procedure or to do your ears. The sooner the NHS starts charging for missed/stormed out of appointments the better. It would certainly cut down on time wasters.