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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just back from doctor's and am fuming and livid

340 replies

deckofcards · 30/12/2013 11:41

Before I write a formal letter of complaint, am I being unreasonable?

Went to doctors' before Christmas for a routine appointment and repeat prescription. Needed a blood test and to have ears syringed (have been going deaf). Dr gave me print out and told me to make an appointment with the nurse. Went to reception and asked for an appointment with the nurse which is what I thought I had been given.

Arrived this morning, having fasted. Called in by a sweet enough girl although she wasn't wearing uniform and didn't properly introduce herself as a nurse or anything else. She took my arm and sweetly put it on a pillow, told me I had very deep veins (which I know but it isn't usually a problem but sometimes a doctor has been called), tried the other arm using elasticated cuffs that were clearly broken because they kept popping open and she later said they were no good. She gave me a glass of water to hydrate me better for the veins (which I would have thought would take more than a mintue to work). Still no joy so she went to get a colleague to help her.

The colleague was the receptionist who leaned over me reeking of tobacco and tried to find a vein. I questioned this and was told she was also a trained phlebotomist. The original one then said they would have to give up as the vein wasn't pronounced enough but she would start on my ears. I asked if she was a qualified nurse and she said, no a health care worker.

I declined her offer to deal with my ears and said that I would prefer an appointment with a fully trained practice nurse.

I went out to make another appointment and have been offered one for today with the proper nurse for my ears and have another on Thursday morning for blood tests. I am extremely grumpy that my time has been wasted.

Am I wrong in thinking that if I am told to make an appointment with the nurse and ask for an appointment with the nurse I should be given an appointment with the nurse or advised either when making the appointment that it is not with a nurse. I certainly should not embark on treatment without being appraised of the full facts.

It was clear that the person I saw this morning was not capable or experienced, it did nothing to inspire confidence that she got the girl off the reception desk to help her (and who reeked of tobacco) and I left feeling cross, upset, disrespected and messed about. I would have thought as a minimum of a health care assistant is expected to take blood or syringe ears (and I think the latter is more of an issue actually) then there should be a fully qualified nurse on the premises to supervise, not the stinky girl from reception.

Is this really what healthcare has come to and surely I'm not being unreasonable to expect the tin to contain what it says on the label.

I am minded to make a formal complain to the surgery but needed to get that off my chest first and to take some feedback - hopefully from those who work in surgeries. Oh, and the receptionist/phlebotomist told me it wasn't just my time that was wasted from their side the healthcare assistant now had 30 minutes with no patient because she wasn't doing my ears. My response to that was that had I been told my appointment wasn't being made with the practice nurse in the first place that wouldn't be the case because I wouldn't have made the appointment.

Sorry - very long but I feel better for a rant - and even more that the entire episode was totally out of order. But am I being Unreasonable to think that.

OP posts:
FudgefaceMcZ · 30/12/2013 12:05

I have regular blood tests for a thyroid condition, and the best person I've ever had doing it was a HCA/phlebotomist, who not only offered to use a smaller needle (I am quite small and also veins possibly a bit scarred from tests), which made it a lot less painful, but managed to get it all done very quickly and was much kinder than the GPs and nurses I've had doing it. I wouldn't personally complain just because it wasn't a nurse, as phlebotomists are specialised in blood sampling. However, it seems like a lot went wrong at this appointment and you were made to feel uncomfortable, which is probably worth making an informal complaint about I guess.

StayAwayFromDeliriumDive · 30/12/2013 12:05

OP - you obviously have difficult veins - who knows if a nurse would have been able to it? The HCW probably does far more bloods than the nurse and will have more experience.

I find your "practice on my ears" comment rather patronising - how do you know they she would be practicing? - did you bother to ask what experience she had?

badbelinda · 30/12/2013 12:06

It's up to the practice how they organise who does what jobs. I as a GP am not going to start doing dressings or asthma reviews because a patient demands it, as I am not the best qualified person for these jobs. The practice will arrange appointments according to the skills of the staff they have. If you don't like the way they do it, change practices but I doubt you'll find things are substantially different elsewhere unless you go private (and that's no guarantee of better quality either)

underachievingmum · 30/12/2013 12:06

How often do you think a GP takes blood? And how often the phlebotomist? Trust me - the phlebotomist will do it more frequently - I know who I'd choose.

Some people are just difficult to take blood from.... They had 8 gos at getting a cannula in me for baby number 3. Just one of those things, no incompetence on part of the doctors or midwives involved.

MrsSteptoe · 30/12/2013 12:07

My GP refused to syringe my son's ears because he said the practice nurse was appropriately trained and he wasn't, and you can burst eardrums if you aren't appropriately trained. If you let your eight year old syringe your ears (I realise the post saying that is a long way up) you are very ill advised.

Shellywelly1973 · 30/12/2013 12:08

YANBU.
Had you booked the appointment & been informed you were not being offered an appointment with a nurse but a HCA, then you would had a choice.

Where as you made an appointment to see a nurse so you should have seen the nurse!

RayofSun · 30/12/2013 12:08

I agree that HCW should be able to carry out the jobs that are on their day list but I also agree from a patient's perspective that you should be made aware that you are not booked in with the nurse as you had expected. I think it is all about managing your expectations which I think is the failure here rather than anyone doing their job correctly or incorrectly. May be letter explaining your disappointment in not having your expectations met, with some constructive criticism of informing patients who their appointments are booked with, as opposed to a letter of complaint might be more suitable.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream · 30/12/2013 12:08

But despite many many replies telling you YABU, and many of us sticking up for HCA's, you still seem determined that you ' don't want your healthcare delivered in this way'. Maybe you should go private. Hang on....they smoke too! Oops

ohfourfoxache · 30/12/2013 12:09

Taking blood can be very hard. A senior nurse tried with mine the last time, failed. Bloods are not easy for me at all - I pass out and have been physically sick in an examination room before now. A friend of mine who had just finished training then tried and got 4 vials first time. Qualifications, in reality, do not actually mean much.

kinkychristmas · 30/12/2013 12:09

You sound like a patronising snob.

sashh · 30/12/2013 12:11

Ears are very delicate organs and there is no way in hell I'd let anyone unqualified anywhere near them.

And what exactly is the qualification for syringing ears?

How do you know who has it and who has not?

When you go to a hospital not all those women people in uniform are nurses.

Not being a nurse does not make you unqualified.

Before I left the NHS people like you OP would call me unqualified because I wasn't a nurse. I had spent 4 years learning my trade and taking qualifications.

Colleagues who remained went on to take masters' degrees alongside other qualifications.

Nurses are skilled professionals but nursing is not the only qualification in health care.

ohfourfoxache · 30/12/2013 12:12

Ah, ok, so "receptionists" are good for nothing but fielding calls and booking appointments Hmm

Wow, that's good to know Hmm

Mintyy · 30/12/2013 12:12

If you are going to make a formal complaint, do try and keep it down to one or two sentences. Anyone reading a very long complaint will just zone out after a minute or two, as I did with your overly-detailed op.

VodkaJelly · 30/12/2013 12:13

I have bad veins, i had 3 midwifes and a doctor fail to get any blood out of me. She might have been experienced and failed with you as your veins were hiding. Doesnt mean she was inexperienced.

you sound very precious to me

Chippednailvarnish · 30/12/2013 12:13

Fuming and livid, er okay then...

Maybe you should try anger management before the ear syringing...

Showy · 30/12/2013 12:13

I have 'deep veins'. I've had phlebotomists struggle for ages to find them. On the day of my second cs, the anaesthetist had to call for somebody to help site the cannula as she couldn't find a vein (my arm was black and blue). A lot of HCAs have found a vein first time. Some struggle.

The problem is my veins, not the experience/rank of the HCP.

Mintyy · 30/12/2013 12:13

Sorry, but overall I think yanbu and you are entitled to make your feelings clear about this appointment this morning.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn · 30/12/2013 12:14

I lost any sympathy when you started the patronising guff about the HCA being a "sweet girl"

The smell of smoke is irrelevant too. It isn't illegal.

SugarCaneShortCake · 30/12/2013 12:20

I would complain OP. I was a practise nurse for many years and I was replaced by a HCA because the GPs wanted to spend less money on salaries. The surgery now has only one qualified nurse and several less qualified HCAs.

If your GP requested an appointment with a nurse, then you should see a nurse. As for the "trained phlebotomist" receptionist - that is a very strange combination Confused

Dayshiftdoris · 30/12/2013 12:23

I agree that taking blood is perfectly acceptable procedure to be undertaken by a HCA / phlebotomist who has had training. If she is unable to get it then asking a more experienced HCA / phlebot is also acceptable. However I struggle to see why the more experienced phlebotomist will have been on reception if there was no nurse in that day...

As for ears...

I had a reaction to ear syringing a few years ago which could have been very serious had the nurse not took a thorough history and acted accordingly 'just in case' based on her clinical judgement...
No one syringes my ears now - the hospital microsuction them Grin

Whilst I have worked with the most amazing and competent HCAs there are some procedures that I and they don't want to touch or they have a very low threshold for not doing it and referring to a qualified... ANY practitioner, qualified or not that does any procedure without taking a history needs questioning and if you didnt have the confidence in this practitioner then YANBU. However YABU to tar all HCAs with the same brush - most are more qualified in what they do than the nurses / doctors.

SauvignonBlanche · 30/12/2013 12:25

I would complain about children working as HCAs and on reception, that's terrible!

jamdonut · 30/12/2013 12:29

I have deep veins too . It is a family trait. Sometimes The phlebotomists (who are not necessarily a nurse - you can be a phlebotomist and have no previous medical training),are better than the nurses or doctors.

I can remember a time, in one of my pregnancies, having to have blood taken. The nurse really struggled, I fainted (hate needles!) she called the registrar and he struggled too. By this time I was shaking from shock. Finally the consultant tried, and managed. That experience alone put me off having blood taken. Yet the last time I had to have blood taken ,the young lady who took it asked if I was ok with blood being taken. I told her my problems and that I had been known to faint , yet she managed two vials before I even knew it!!

I don't have a problem with surgery staff being trained to do blood taking.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights · 30/12/2013 12:32

YABU

You made appointments to have your blood taken and your ears syringed - they were booked with the most appropriate people to do the job - it is not up to you to decide who does which job at the surgery. Your GP probably calls them all 'the nurse' - so I wouldn't read anything into that at all.

Sometimes blood is difficult to take - it doesn't mean she can't do it. YOU should have drunk water before you went to plump up your veins.

Ears - you didn't even ask what her experience/qualifications were, so you have no idea.

Lots of receptionists are also trained Phlebs.

Smoking - yes it's a revolting habit, but it isn't illegal and she wasn't doing it in the surgery, the residual smell is just one of those things.

If you complain you will just make yourself look like even more of a twat.

JumpJockey · 30/12/2013 12:38

At myDH's surgery several of the receptionists trained as phlebotomists, partly so they have more skills when they want to move jobs and also because it means you have a greater pool of staff available to take blood thus saving people having to wait so long. And as far as being trained/having experience goes, sometimesthe nurses at the blood donor centre have trouble with my veins and they do nothing else all day long.

SpottyTeacakes · 30/12/2013 12:45

Healthcare assistants can be qualified to take blood, syringe ears, do certain injections, dressings, bp, ECG, 24 hour bp monitor etc etc.

She couldn't do the blood (some patients where I work have to have a dr take their blood as even the nurses can't do it) and you refused to let her do your ears.

They booked you in with a nurse.

I really don't get the problem.

Also, as much as I dislike the smell, some people smoke and that doesn't mean she wasn't a qualified phlebotomist like she said.