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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Just back from doctor's and am fuming and livid

340 replies

deckofcards · 30/12/2013 11:41

Before I write a formal letter of complaint, am I being unreasonable?

Went to doctors' before Christmas for a routine appointment and repeat prescription. Needed a blood test and to have ears syringed (have been going deaf). Dr gave me print out and told me to make an appointment with the nurse. Went to reception and asked for an appointment with the nurse which is what I thought I had been given.

Arrived this morning, having fasted. Called in by a sweet enough girl although she wasn't wearing uniform and didn't properly introduce herself as a nurse or anything else. She took my arm and sweetly put it on a pillow, told me I had very deep veins (which I know but it isn't usually a problem but sometimes a doctor has been called), tried the other arm using elasticated cuffs that were clearly broken because they kept popping open and she later said they were no good. She gave me a glass of water to hydrate me better for the veins (which I would have thought would take more than a mintue to work). Still no joy so she went to get a colleague to help her.

The colleague was the receptionist who leaned over me reeking of tobacco and tried to find a vein. I questioned this and was told she was also a trained phlebotomist. The original one then said they would have to give up as the vein wasn't pronounced enough but she would start on my ears. I asked if she was a qualified nurse and she said, no a health care worker.

I declined her offer to deal with my ears and said that I would prefer an appointment with a fully trained practice nurse.

I went out to make another appointment and have been offered one for today with the proper nurse for my ears and have another on Thursday morning for blood tests. I am extremely grumpy that my time has been wasted.

Am I wrong in thinking that if I am told to make an appointment with the nurse and ask for an appointment with the nurse I should be given an appointment with the nurse or advised either when making the appointment that it is not with a nurse. I certainly should not embark on treatment without being appraised of the full facts.

It was clear that the person I saw this morning was not capable or experienced, it did nothing to inspire confidence that she got the girl off the reception desk to help her (and who reeked of tobacco) and I left feeling cross, upset, disrespected and messed about. I would have thought as a minimum of a health care assistant is expected to take blood or syringe ears (and I think the latter is more of an issue actually) then there should be a fully qualified nurse on the premises to supervise, not the stinky girl from reception.

Is this really what healthcare has come to and surely I'm not being unreasonable to expect the tin to contain what it says on the label.

I am minded to make a formal complain to the surgery but needed to get that off my chest first and to take some feedback - hopefully from those who work in surgeries. Oh, and the receptionist/phlebotomist told me it wasn't just my time that was wasted from their side the healthcare assistant now had 30 minutes with no patient because she wasn't doing my ears. My response to that was that had I been told my appointment wasn't being made with the practice nurse in the first place that wouldn't be the case because I wouldn't have made the appointment.

Sorry - very long but I feel better for a rant - and even more that the entire episode was totally out of order. But am I being Unreasonable to think that.

OP posts:
CaractacusPotts · 02/01/2014 07:05

Nonsense!

BrownPaint · 02/01/2014 07:22

Your OP is incredibly patronising. I've been to phlebotomy and left with several punctures because the person couldn't get any blood...it was an awful experience, but it didn't occur to me to complain.

I've actually been advised not to donate blood because they couldn't find my veins.

I've also been told that it's "nonsense" by someone who just used a smaller needle and had absolutely no trouble whatsoever.

JingleJemJem · 02/01/2014 07:29

An anaesthetist once failed to get blood from me, then a trainee midwife did it no problem :)

opps2far · 02/01/2014 07:34

YABVU. The NHS cant afford for precious people to waste appointments and demand a new one. Get a grip please. I know HCPs who are 10 x more experienced and confident than some nurses, if she wasnt qualified to do these things she wouldnt have been let loose on you.
You sound patronising and prissy, you should be grateful that the smelly receptionist came to help, instead of just givibg up straight away.
You have wasted a perfectly good appointment which are few and far between so well done. Makes me sick.

opps2far · 02/01/2014 07:37

I love that the op thinks her time is important but these lowly NHS staffs time isnt Hmm

SpottyTeacakes · 02/01/2014 07:41

JingleJem it took an anaesthetist half an hour to get a line into me when I was in hospital recently. I wouldn't complain either as I know I have difficult veins. Never has a phlebotomist struggled to get blood from me though.

JingleJemJem · 02/01/2014 08:00

I always feel a need to apologise for my veins before they start, Spotty. Terrible they are.

FrogStarandRoses · 02/01/2014 08:01

OP - I'm sure the medical professionals you have seen regularly for your chronic condition have explained how you can control/moderate your symptoms.

Did they mention stress at all?

It's fairly well documented that stress can exacerbate or even cause illness - so while you may well believe that you have a valid point, surely for the good of your own health, you can let it go?

x2boys · 02/01/2014 09:37

its not that hard to be taught how to take blood [apparently] you attend a couple of study days practice with a plastic arm have another trained person ie venupuncturist, dr, nurse assess you doing it about ten times and off you go no idea about syringing ears though I,m a nurse and have not been trained to take blood lots of my health care assistant collegues have however.

x2boys · 02/01/2014 09:45

its the same with in injections really I have been giving them for about twenty years but I bet I could teach somebody with no experience how to give them competently in about half a day or less?

my2centsis · 02/01/2014 09:49

Jeepers would hate to meet you

x2boys · 02/01/2014 09:53

I have actually found health care assistants/nurses [I say this because both can be trained to take blood ] often better at it than a dr !

Newjobthankgod · 02/01/2014 10:00

That's because doctors don't do it often. Phlebotomy is practice practice practice. If you don't do it for awhile, you lose the skill.

x2boys · 02/01/2014 10:02

health care assistants in my trust anyway don't have to do any specific training to do the job but whilst doing the job the can access loads of training they are a vital part of the team and we need more of them.

x2boys · 02/01/2014 10:05

I know newjob the consultants [and probabaly some of the SHO,S] I work with would not have a clue!

Newjobthankgod · 02/01/2014 10:29

Where I work the technical partners (American term for hcas) do it. If they cant get it they pass it to the RN. Totally dumb because the TPs o all the lab draws every am and are so good at it. If they can't get it I sure won't. If the RN fails to get it then we place a consult to the picc team and they get it or place a picc line. My patients are renal so they are tough. Our docs wont touch lab draws or IV starts with a ten foot pole. One doctor told me it has been over 20 years since he stuck a patient.

higgle · 02/01/2014 10:34

OP, YANBU, your experience is precisely the reason why I insist on my GP doing all these procedures herself (which she is happy to do) we hear enough about botched jobs on the NHS causing deaths and disability, you should certainly not have ben expected to entrust your health and wellbeing to an HCA.

PennySillin · 02/01/2014 11:38

higgle that's a bit risky! Grin DH is a GP and he hasn't got a clue how to work an ear irrigation machine! He was, however, very good at taking blood although hasn't done for a very long time in his current practice as we have so many HCAs and phlebotomists who are so much more experienced.

YoungGirlGrowingOld · 02/01/2014 12:42

I can kind of see Higgle's point - it seems that the NHS is "solving" its money problems by allowing less qualified (i.e. cheaper) staff to carry out procedures. I think that is partly what the OP's beef is - there are no doubt many occasions on which this is safe/appropriate, but the NHS should at least be transparent about it and not try to conflate doctors/nurses/HCA's into one homogenous "health care professional".

I was offered an appointment at my local NHS hospital for a hysteroscopy, and informed it would be undertaken by a "hysteroscopist" (trained nurse, presumably) and that no analgesia would be required. Had same procedure through BUPA and it was done by a consultant and I was offered GA or sedation. (I find the procedure extremely painful and have to have it done regularly).

If that isn't a two-tier system then I don't know what is!

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 02/01/2014 14:26

Of course if you have it done through BUPA it'll be done by a consultant, it's what you're paying for! It's why consultants do private work! Doesn't mean the NHS nurse is any less qualified to carry out the procedure. And I expect thy did offer you GA or sedation, it'll get added to the bill, or your insurance companies bill.

Higgle yabu to get a GP to do every procedure, I certainly wouldn't want a doctor taking my bloods, they do it far less often than the nurses at my practice. It's not a hierarchy system, doctors aren't better at it just because they're doctors.

This thread is quite insulting to HCAs and nurses in parts.

Babyroobs · 02/01/2014 14:36

If two people trained in phlebotomy couldn't find a vein, the chances are you have difficult veins. There is no harm asking someone with more experience to assist, in fact that is sensible. I used to work in a Chemotherapy suite where we had a lot of patients with poor veins and if I couldn't gain access to the vein, I wouldn't hesitate to ask someone more experience. Better that than ' having a go' and traumatise the patient. Stinking of tobacco however is completely unaccepatable and not professional at all.

YoungGirlGrowingOld · 02/01/2014 16:36

But Pobble - don't we also pay for the NHS? If the HCA is "equally" qualified why is that not offered privately? It would be more profitable! Why should pain relief be the preserve of private patients? I think if we take the attitude of preserving the NHS at all costs then we will just end up with a third rate service - in fact it is probably already happening, and I suspect that is the back story to the OP.

PennySillin · 02/01/2014 17:04

No I don't think we do all pay for the NHS. We all contribute, and obviously some more than others, but we don't pay for exactly what we get in the way that you do if you go private, hence, rightly or wrongly, the 2 tier system.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 02/01/2014 17:26

Private hospitals are a money making businesses. Why would they charge £200 for a nurse to do a procedure when a consultant would charge £750? For example. A lot of consultants do private work on the side as it makes them a lot of money. And people will pay for it, or claim it on their health insurance. I know people who work in private healthcare, it's run very differently, but not always in a good way.

DoYouLikeMyBaubles · 02/01/2014 17:29

Good job you don't go to the local GP here then higgle

The HCA's are much more experienced, as it's part of their job role.
The phlebomtonists are the best because it is their job role.

It isn't part of a GP's role to take bloods and do other procedures. They barely get time to listen, diagnose and prescribe.

Just because someone seems higher up because of their job title and pay band doesn't mean they're the best for the job.

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