To think this level of drink is too much.....

[Feckadeck]

...and that I am not wrong in worrying about my daughter growing up around it?

Mil and step FIL visiting us for month. They drink every single night...not drunk but think because they have high tolerance due to levels they drink. It's not just one or two either. They do same at home so nothing to do with them being here. On last visits I let it slide as not really my business but now I have a 10 week old dd. I am so worried about future family events and fact drink will always be involved....actually will like be involved every single time we around them in evening or anytime we out fork unch (eg drank at lunch in family cafe yesterday!) I don't see that as being a good situation for my daughter to grow up around. I realise I can't control what other people do. But it. Des concern me.

As a secondary issue my DH drinks more when they here as always being offered drink. I told him my concerns about my alcohol but he dismisses them. Him and step FIL went put last night and came home drunk...I was asleep thankfully but woke to sound of husband vomiting in ensuit then baby woke up and I struggled to settle whilst he slept like log! I know that is not in,was fault and I will speak to DH about it but I just know he will dismiss me. He doesn't go out more than maybe monthly but does drink too much when he does go out, he doesn't regularly drink in house.

I think inlaws have a drink problem but realise I am in danger of seeming judge!am just worried for my dd. AIBU?

MrsKoala, I believe you when you say you don't feel drunk. But if you're doing a bottle of wine a day you're not sober either, are you?

When my ex was regularly doing a bottle of wine a day she wasn't noticeably drunk either. She'd been doing it for so long and was so used to it that being pretty much permanently non-sober was absolutely normal for her.

Of course in my ex's case her drink problem developed into full-blown alcoholism. But I'm sure that won't happen to you because you're different, aren't you?

Yup.

MrsKoala with your daily alcohol intake can we assume you don't drive?

I can't drive, no. But i don't think it would make any difference. I would never drive when i'd had a drink. A bottle of the wine i drink (and no i probably don't drink a bottle every day - probably 4-5 bottles a week, but some days a whole bottle and others half depends on what else i'm doing) is 7.6 units apparently. I will drink over about 5 hours and go to bed about 11pm i get up at 8.30ish. If you expunge a unit an an hour from your body, i wont be over the limit in the morning.

I would feel very differently if i drank the same amount neat over 2 hours. I also wont drink what i don't like, so if 'my' wine is not available i'd rather have tea (never ever drink spirits, other white wine or any red wine - occasionally have a 4% beer and love the odd guinness). I have no problem cutting down when ttc, pregnant or bfing.

Oh and i am just over 5ft 10 and broad and athletic and i always eat a meal when drinking - this apparently makes a difference to the blood alcohol and the way you feel, so probably why i don't feel the effect as much.

MrsK, I think daily drinking is pretty joyless. I savour a glass of white on the balcony. However, if I find myself drinking it as a matter of course then I stop for a month or two, just to reassure myself that it's possible to stop.

Feel free not to answer, but when was the last time you were dry for any length of time? Alcoholism isn't pretty and if you develop it, you'll be the last to know / admit it.

A glass of wine with a meal daily is not joyless at all. Although it is not good for your health to drink daily.

When you say dry, do mean not ever having a drop? and how long is a length of time?

When ttc (8 months), pregnant (nearly 10 months ) and bfing (8 months) i did still drink but maybe a small glass of wine or a couple of halves (not on the same day) of guinness a week.

You sound odd.
How much mil drinks is none if your business unless she is rude to you, etc.
how much your dh drinks, if he's being sick, is not ok. But that is your only point of contention. Other than that, you have nothing.

MrsKoala I also think the occasional parental shitfaced/puke scenario is no bad thing to witness - it can be a lesson against over indulgence.

That's a wonderful piece of self-justification you've built up there. Not sure research actually bears out that that's the result at a populational level, and at an individual level it of course varies.

Having been on the child's end, what it produced at the time was fear and terror. And before anyone says something about first world problems and "why would you be scared by that?" I dealt with relatives self-harming with knives with professional calm at the age of eight years old so being scared by parental drunkenness wasn't me being being over-sensitive.

In the long-term, I don't drink. I'm one of those "joy-less" people. Other people with similar backgrounds have become alcoholics. Moderation doesn't seem to be the result of witnessing parents who drink heavily daily and get shit-faced sometimes, anecdotally. It's one extreme or the other.

i think your in laws attitude towards drink is a much healthier lesson for your dd than your husband getting shitfaced once a month

They are all drinking too much.
Watching the adults around you drink to that extent is at best cringeworthy ad dull and at worse depressing and scary.

Ummm i have never ever in my life been so drunk i have vomited - let alone since ds was born. So don't know how that is self justification. In fact my father is an alcoholic, and it is a cautionary tale for me. As a child i had to clean up after he frequently shat himself. The drunken rages were the worst tho. My father often drove utterly shitfaced with me and picked me up from a party once drunk and was pulled over and charged with drink driving. He was in a furious rage with me as it was my fault for wanting to go to a party - i was never taken to one again. I have many stories which people would find horrifying. It doesn't change the fact i think 'most' normal drinkers have occasionally accidentally overdone it and had to have a bit of a yog after excess - as i said i have never puked (however in my student days i did fall over once or twice).

How much they drink is up to them, provided they aren't being drunk and rowdy which it doesn't sound like they are.

I wouldn't be over the moon about the vomiting, but these things do happen occasionally.

OP do you realise that you can have a drink even if you are EBF? Even after a significant consumption, the alcohol level in your milk would be something similar to that found in orange juice, and therefore would have no effect on your baby.

You do sound a bit uptight about it all, but I guess that will calm down as you get out of the new baby stage.

Love [not meant to be patronising] can you take a step back and listen to yourself? I can well believe you're the daughter of an alcoholic, and I'm sorry if I'm offending you. But it looks to me like you took the other road to me.

My alcoholic parent has consistently denied being an alcoholic because "they don't drink before 7pm" as their parent did. You're using vomiting and not getting into drunken rages. Those are not good indicators. My parent got to the "assaulting police officers" stage but never vomited. My flatmates when I grew up (I left home soon as I could) drank extremely heavily- they all had had shit childhoods too. Some got to vomiting stage. Some didn't. Lack of vomit doesn't equal lack of dependence.

MrsKoala

I've got to say, your relationship with alcohol does not sound like a healthy one...

Actually i think you are twisting my words BigJessie. I think you may have a bit of an agenda and are trying to be helpful but refusing to see past your own experience. I did not use me not vomiting as a reason i am not an alcoholic (i know loads of alcoholics who never vomit) i used it to defend your accusation of my 'self justification' for saying the occasional puke is okay.

I know many children of alcoholics who drink in moderation. My 2 best friends from primary school, one had a mother who (also never vomited) died at 37, also had similar experiences to me. We all and their siblings drink within our limits.

You are entitled to that opinion, MrsKoala. We all have our own lenses, and although I try, I couldn't promise mine is completely untinted. I'm human not an android.

But ask yourself, how much research did you do befor you decided the governmental guidelines for alcohol unit consumption weren't that meaningful?

Do you have hard and fast definitions for what constitutes a good limit, or is it a bit like the old joke that an alcoholic is someone who drinks more than their doctor?

A good limit for me is as long as i don't act badly, offend/upset anyone, feel drunk or out of control, etc. I choose my limits as an adult based on that. I don't really care much about governmental guidelines on most things. I think if anything they are probably too high - just like the 5 a day is too low. I think they choose things they think people may adhere to rather than what they think is right/healthy (i'm sure 1 unit a week would actually be more healthy, but they know lots of people would ignore it). I also think everyone is different with their tolerances and these things are a guide which as adults we can choose to take under advisement.

I think this is the type of subject where no one is converted by anyone else, and everyone thinks their level is best. I am not bothered if Lady thinks i have an unhealthy relationship with booze, as i am totally happy with my consumption levels. I know people who don't drink who think one drink is too many, and i know those who drink litres of spirits per week who think anyone who drinks less is square and boring. They are all convinced they are right.

I don't think people who don't drink are joyless btw.

I think that a person's drink consumption is their own business unless and until their drinking leads them to behave in an unacceptable way. if someone is becoming aggressive when drunk, having hangovers which impact on either family life or ability to hold down a job, puking and pissing all over the house and expecting other household members to clean it up, or spending more than the household budget can afford on alcohol, then it's a problem that other household members are entitled to insist is dealt with.

Outside of that, I believe very firmly in bodily sovereignty. If you want to do things which are bad for your health, it's up to you. We own our bodies and if we want to harm them (by unhealthy diets, excessive drink/drug use, plastic surgery, smoking) or risk them (by participating in extreme sports or choosing a dangerous career) then that's up to us.

Well, I agree with that in principle, SGB, but drinking a few glasses of wine every night is modelling behaviour to children that that is a healthy amount of alcohol to drink. It normalises drinking everyday, and the attitudes that "I need this drink" or "I deserve this drink".

So it does affect children, even if they are not subject to scenes of vommitting, hangovers, aggression, etc.

Oh FFS! There are all sorts of things that parents might do which are not, necessarily, the best or wisest options, whether that's swearing, getting into debt, indulging in endless sleb-weight-women's-appearance discussion or having a drink. Really the best thing we can do for our DC is expose them to a wide variety of human behaviour so they don't grow up as paranoid, officious little bigots.

MrsK I feel I know you.
I have had one close friend and one distant relative who both died as a direct result of alcohol. Both of them refused to accept that their slow but steady downhill path was due to drink, even when they were in hospital. Both believed they were in control of their drinking and could have written your posts. In fact your i am totally happy with my consumption levels is almost an exact quote that I remember clearly.
My relative even did what you did during pregnancy, being satisfied with cutting down to a glass a day.
Please, please understand that I am not criticising you, any more than I ever criticised them. I am just concerned that you might be following an unhealthy path.

I agree with much of what thebigjessie is saying.

Also, the point being made by some posters about it not being a problem unless their behaviour is affected, is interesting.
How much of a problem? To whom?
Does the drinker need to be throwing up or shouting or falling over in order for it to be considered a problem? I don't think so.
Even a "moderate" amount of alcohol Affects behaviour. The drinker doesn't see it, but it loosens us up. It immediately changes the way ppl interact, affecting inhibitions and mood. That's why we do it really. "chill out, have ". Ppl make arguments about the taste (and yes, i do drink when i'm not bf) but the taste argument never really holds up on its own in records of what ppl actually drink.
That does affect the people around them. It puts a barrier between the drinker and non drinkers. That's certainly what the non drinkers report.

If an parent drinks every day or most days to the point that they are unable to drive (just a couple of glasses then) it affects the whole household. The other parent needs to not drink to pick up the slack.

Even a bottle of supermarket wine costs between £5 and £15. Split to the middle, that's about £50 a week for one person to "enjoy" their bottle a day. I think that's a significant cut of an average family income for one person to consume.

So I think ppl often seriously underestimate the impact of drinking. Especially when one of the family isn't happy with the level of drinking.
And that's without the worry of the health risks such as liver problems, cancer and diabetes that come with excessive intake.

Sallyingforth I've read back through, MrsKoala seems to me to have said she drank either a couple of halves of Guinness or a small glass of wine per week when she was BF, not one or the other every night!

Having said, I agree a bottle a day is a bit much. Apart from anything else, I begrudge the duty and VAT...