To think 'they won't remember' is a stupid thing to say?

[LightminTheQueem]

So many people tell me reassuringly when the baby's upset going to sleep, or if she's hurt and upset or if they're proposing CIO or any number of things, 'don't worry, she won't remember any of this' as if it's almost therefore ok to do things which upset babies because they'll have no memory of it. It irritates me. Is it therefore ok to do the same to someone with memory loss? Have none of them seen 'Memento'? Can they not sense their cruel inhumanity to their fellow memory deprived humans? Hmm?

Well cailin, if a baby remembers CIO, surely they'll remember their mother crying on the floor next to them whilst they cry too?

Where is the difference. Both children are crying because no one is helping them/fulfilling their emotional needs.

The HV told me 'he won't remember this, don't worry'. So which is it?

I worry about this every day, by the way. Every single day. I scare myself when I'm alone as to whether he'll remember being let down by me.

Every time a thread like this comes up, I honestly feel like shite.

Hawk - not always the case, often it's a way of trying to reassure a parent and give them one less thing to worry about.

When DS was in hdu and being unable to hold him to comfort him being told that was very reassuring. It was also true as he is 4 now and has no recollection of any of it (unlike me who is scarred for life)

I think when they are very young you are basically laying down who they are/will be.

So yes, whilst they might not remember individual incidents, if the 'problem' is severe enough or long lasting enough then it will be imprinted into them.

Otherwise why would it matter if people abuse their kids when they are little as long as they don't actually kill/maim them?

Humans however are astonishingly adaptable/resilient which is why there are 7 billion plus of us and we are at the top of the food chain.

A bit of trauma is to be expected and just part of life really, so having to have a cry while your caregiver has to do something else. Having a bit of an ouchy from falling down, even breaking a leg but getting cuddles for the pain all are fine because they are to be expected and are largely unavoidable.

Being ignored by your caregiver while you scream, being repeatedly hurt and not comforted, being neglected/starved are not an inevitable part of being human and therefore have a negative effect.

Oh dear, it was meant to be a bit 'grr, what a nonsensical observation' type aibu. Am certainly not saying people should feel guilty for things that happen to their small children or how they are able to deal with them, only that when your baby's crying of an evening it's not a helpful thing to hear!

Fortydoors I've done that myself, quite recently actually. I really didn't mean that kind of situation, I'm sorry. It's the best option when you feel like that, of course.

Oh Forty please don't stress about your DD. My DD was the same and I was told to put her in the bathrroom in her moses basket where I couldn't hear her. It broke my heart at the time. She is now aged 27 and can sleep anywhere and doesn't remember a thing about crying in the dark. I still feel like shit though

Right, so saying 'they won 't remember it' isn't a stupid thing to say, as per the OP, and can actually be helpful and comforting.

I think in a way CIO is a lot tamer.

You know your baby has been fed, changed, cuddled and the usual mental check list.

Where as when I couldn't cope DD was left while I sorted myself out.

She is 4 now and we are like 2 peas in a pod.

Nightsky that was a one off event in (what I imagine) was a happy childhood. Still even though he doesn't remember it it may still be buried somewhere. My dsis couldn't stand rice crispies but didn't know why until I told her about an unfortunate spat when she was about 4 that involved rice crispies coming out her nose (don't ask). She can't remember it but from that day on she has had a near-phobia of rcs.

lightmin no, I do see what you're saying. It's just, not all people want to emotionally unfulfill their child when they are young, it isn't always a choice.

All the time (and he's 3 now), I think about what happened and how horrid the whole thing was and I comfort myself by thinking 'he was too young to remember, he won't remember' and the HV said that, and so did my counsellor, and so did DS' GP. Maybe it is a comfort thing. Probably.

But from the gist of some of the opinions here, I don't understand how someone using CIO on a baby would be any more damaging than me having PND and not engaging with my son, not comforting him properly, not being good enough, crying when he cried... He was too young to know the difference, wasn't he?

He wasn't lying on the floor watching me sob and generally being shit and totally unlike the pampers adverts and thinking 'oh, it's ok, she doesn't mean it...' Was he?

Forty, oh no you haven't damaged her! That is standard advice. I have walked out on both my DC although one is autistic, has never slept through the night and I have had to develop extra patience reserves.

My Dad also left me alone in the house for an hour every night when I was a baby in order to pick my mum up from work. They did this every night throughout my entire childhood.

There is also the point (as demonstrated by this thread) that while the baby may not remember it the parent does.

Both positive and negative. I messed up quite a bit as a parent (as we all do) and I can remember most of those incidents with that tightening of my stomach/chest and guilty feeling.

On the flipside, I remember all the good stuff with them as well, all the funny moments and giggles and cuddles.

Ziggy. You were on the floor WITH your baby. You may not realise it but you were doing your best. That is what matters. That is what makes everything ok in a babies life. Don't beat yourself up.

Ziggie I didn't say they remember CIO I said every action builds the relationship. I had pnd too when dd was born and I feel shit about it. But I am building our relationship now as best I can.

'As best you can' counts for a LOT with babies/kids I think.

Of course PND is bad for mums and babies, if it wasn't it wouldn't matter if you had it or not.

ziggie please,please, please don't worry. I did CC crying with DS1. He is 19 now, he remembers none of it. He is incredibly close to me. He cuddles me all the time, he lies next to me, he tells me he loves me about a dozen times a day. He is the most well adjusted child ever.

I didn't do it with DS2(17) because I didn't need to. I did, a couple of times, put him in his cot and leave him for 10 minutes because he had been screaming for ages and I was at breaking point. He doesn't remember any of it, and I defy you to find a child closer to their mother.

DS1 does remember things from before he was 2, but they are things that happened to me, in hospital when I was pregnant with DS2. He, also, remembers meeting DS2 for the first time when he was 2 and 10 days.

So I assume with CIO the parents would be there if the child was unwell or are teething ect.

I always thought CIO was so the baby could figure out a way to fall asleep without the need of swaddling, rocking, pacing the floorboards ect.

I agree with how morloth and roadwalker explained it

Remembering and not remembering is irrelevant really which I think was the point of the Op. I was sexually abused and only remember very small bits of it but it still affected me massively. Thing is what would have helped heal me was my mother acknowleging the effect it had in me. Instead she told me I was trying to make her feel guilty.

Guilt is pointless. Everyone fucks up, it's how you handle it that matters.

CIO and CC are different. With CC you keep going back into the baby every few minutes, and I didn't do it until DS1 was 10/11 months old.

DS1 was/is incredibly well looked after. He had every single one of his needs met, including the need to sleep. Once he was able to self settle and slept through the night, he was a much happier child.

CIO involves leaving a baby to cry for so long the exhaust themselves and sleep. Regular CIO in young babies can cause the baby to stop crying altogether. Serious neglect can lead to permanent brain damage.

CC is a different thing entirely (when used appropriately).

YABU
In difficult times I find the fact that DD won't remember anything extremely comforting. I also had bad PND and wanted to run away, thinking DD would be better off without me, until she was 6 months old. I spent a lot of that time crying. She is now 2, remembers nothing of it and we adore each other.
I say this to friends who are struggling and feeling guilty about a bad day with their baby DCs. Along with the fact that it WILL get better.

Oh CailinDana, me too. I am so sorry

I was gaslighted all my life and have made it clear (I hope) that my problems were not because of a temporary blip in attachment due to a medical emergency or PND.

Ziggie, no no, of course he won't remember. I'm not saying babies do remember things when people say they don't. I guess they are influenced by the situation but you can do what you can do, can't you? I didn't have PND but I did find adjusting very difficult and regret things I decided with DD1, realise that my idea of what a 'reasonable' feeding routine was was totally off for her and that she must have been hungry a lot of the time, and we did cc with her when she was tiny, which I also feel awful about :(. But all you can do is what you can manage at the time in order to get through and cope.

I know I said CIO but I didn't really mean that originally, I meant silly things like when they have jabs, or when they won't settle even though you're cuddling them, and instead of saying 'come now, mother, it will protect your child from vile diseases boost the herd immunity' or 'what more can you do than cuddle her?' they say 'ooh, don't worry, she'll never remember!' which seems beside the point so I find it most irrational and annoying. However I am glad that DD1 doesn't remember me despairing night after night that she wouldn't sleep, probably because she was hungry. And many other horrible times too.

I was arguing this with MIL just the other day. She's firmly a 'they won't remember so it doesn't matter' person. My view is that it's like house building, you're laying the foundations. In years to come they won't be seen only the later stuff will be seen. But you still need the early, unseen bits to be absolutely solidly laid.