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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Ripping live animals apart is a wonderful British tradition that should be preseved.

332 replies

ItsAWonderfulCervix · 26/12/2013 13:05

Let's overturn the ban. After all boxing day just isn't any fun without a few dead foxes and blood and guts and stuff.

And while we're at it, don't you just love a bit of badger baiting for variety When shredding foxes gets dull.

OP posts:

RandyRudolf · 27/12/2013 00:26

Hunt Sabs operate well within the law. The last one I heard of being detained by the police was during the badger cull, released soon after with no charges. If they truly harassed the huntsman the police would intervene in a jiffy especially if children are involved as you state. They are purely there to remind the huntsmen that they are observing the activity and that it remains within the law. Yes, they might piss the hunt off by distracting the hounds but only if they think a fox is at risk. I have seen more cases of the huntsmen becoming violent against the sab, especially during the badger cull. They believe passionately for their cause just as the huntsmen do for their sport.

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 27/12/2013 00:27

The law as it currently stands is that no more than 2 dogs can be used to flush out a fox, and then you can legally shoot it. You say before this law, hunting 'kindly' took care of the sick and lame, but I assure you nature has a rather good handle on this itself and doesn't need your help.

I have no problem in the culling of overpopulated animals but I do object to hypocrisy. If foxes were shot in the same way as deer for example (and the marksmen really do target the weak ones) there'd be no complaint from me. They are not. It's a bloody and violent sport you do, not a benevolent act, try being honest about your motivation.

Besides, if a fox goes to ground and you dig it out of it's den and shoot it, how can you use the survival of the fittest argument. It's a fox versus 2 dogs and a gun. It'd need to be a pretty impressive fox to overcome those odds. The fact that hunting continues despite this law blows the lid off this killing to be kind argument. Stop kidding yourself and take a long hard look at why you do this 'sport' (sic)!

NigellasDealer · 27/12/2013 00:30

the traditional British lack of tolerance and desire to scapegoat people who show signs of individualism, justified by some ideological premise
could you clarify or expand on that at all?

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:31

Rudolf - May i come and observe your internet browsing to make sure you are not downloading illegally, or some sort of paedophile then? You'd be totally ok with that? I can send you a keylogger to save time if you like.

I would also like to send a group of my friends to observe your parenting, you know, just to make sure you're not abusing your kids or doing anything against the law, Follow you around shopping centres to make sure you're not stealing (After all, you have hands, so you're capable).

In fact, why not just make vigilante groups commonplace. Should totally dragons den that. I'll be rich since its apparently acceptable.

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:39

Sleep is that aimed at me? I don't hunt and most of your post confuses me... I didnt say anything about survival of the fittest that you haven't just said. No fox stands a chance against a gun. Traditional fox hunting does allow for some natural selection. I said shooting is just as cruel and causes just as much suffering to many foxes...

Rudolf - Codswallop. It happens a lot. And even if it happened just a little thats still too much. Just accept they they are as bad as the hunters. You cannot oppose cruelty to foxes while dismissing the cruelty to the horses and the dogs. That is hypocritical.

RandyRudolf · 27/12/2013 00:41

Thanks for the offer but I already have CCTV following me around when shopping and walking/driving through the city centre going about my business. Ah, perhaps I have a case against the council for harassment. Maybe not.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 27/12/2013 00:43

Its amazing how much you can spook a horse and endanger life or scare a child and stay within the law!

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:43

Sorry... When were the hunt sabateurs officially appointed by any governing body or authority? Did the council appoint them? Must have missed that...

NigellasDealer · 27/12/2013 00:44

personally i think hunt sabs should be culled

RandyRudolf · 27/12/2013 00:44

If you have evidence or a personal experience where you have witnessed Sabs acting cruelly against horses or hounds then I strongly recommend you report it to the police. Maybe next time get video footage if possible. I would not condone that sort of behaviour and neither would many other hunt Sabs.

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:44

Sooo my point remains that they are members of public with no authority and no right to randomly stalk other innocent members of the public who are not breaking the law.

Unless dressing up as a fox yourself is now illegal, or drag hunting became illegal in the last twenty minutes....

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 27/12/2013 00:45

Just to add, I have no problem with Drag Hunting! I think we all know that Fox Hunting still goes on, despite being illegal. As I mentioned above, Drag Hunting has rather too much of an 'organised fun' feel to it to satisfy those with a blood lust. Why some people believe they are above the law confuses me.

I'm not a Sab myself. If I were I would join you on horseback, do any sab's do this, they should.

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:45

There is plenty of video footage. Hunt sabs dont like seeing it. The dickhead in lush certainly didnt. Its easily searchable.

If you didnt tolerate it you would leave the organisation and stop being a hypocrite and condoning animals and children being targetted by vigilante thugs.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 27/12/2013 00:46

You cannot oppose cruelty to foxes while dismissing the cruelty to the horses and the dogs. That is hypocritical.
Totally this!

RandyRudolf · 27/12/2013 00:47

No sleep the Sabs follow the hunt via public footpaths/land which is why they sometimes lose the hunt. You have to pay to be part of the hunt.

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:50

No sleep the Sabs follow the hunt via public footpaths/land which is why they sometimes lose the hunt. You have to pay to be part of the hunt.

It's also harder to abuse other horses if you're sat on top of one yourself. And the sabs themselves dont want to be on top of the horse that gets caught in the netted fences and breaks its legs. You know, in case it lands on them and crushes them.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 27/12/2013 00:50

I can imagine hunt sabs on horseback yelling and letting off air horns! Endanger themselves? I think not!

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 27/12/2013 00:51

DizzyZebra, my point is that you said hunting roots out the weak alone. You can't use this argument if you are shooting them, so, my question is, what good does hunting do?

RandyRudolf · 27/12/2013 00:52

Sooo my point remains that they are members of public with no authority and no right to randomly stalk other innocent members of the public who are not breaking the law.

Just as a hunt sab would argue that a huntsman has no legal right to stalk and kill an innocent fox.

This argument will go on forever as each side is passionate and will fight for their cause.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 27/12/2013 00:55

The argument vwill go on until its completely stopped and the animal rights activists move on to persecuting someone else!

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:55

Sleep - I dont know, I've not said whether i think hunting does any good or not. I just like to laugh at the hypocrites when this debate comes up. I'd happily pull up a hypocritical hunter too.

Rudolf - And they'd be right. they don't have a legal right to kill foxes. That's not what my point is about though. It's about them harrassing people who aren't killing foxes. Anyone could be killing anything. But we dont all stalk each other 24/7.

If they have actual evidence that a particular hunt is illegally hunting then go for it.

Thats not the case though is it...

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 27/12/2013 00:56

I would propose that the sabs follow on horseback respectfully to observe. Any video footage taken that shows clear law breaking can be handed to the police and the criminal responsible for the act prosecuted.

DizzyZebra · 27/12/2013 00:58

That would be a better solution sleep, Although id still agree that a member would be justified in feeling unfairly policed if theyve never broken the law before.

RandyRudolf · 27/12/2013 00:58

A while back some huntsmen called on a sab group to help release their hounds who had got caught up and trapped in some bushes. The huntsmen thanked the Sabs and they shook hands. Hardly the actions of a vigilante group. Sabs have no beef against the horses or hounds, just the intention of the hunt. You often see Sabs patting the dogs on the head when they are waiting around near a hunt. The dogs aren't vicious and are not treated as such.

NigellasDealer · 27/12/2013 00:58

yes but sleep the sabs don't ride they hate people who ride horses, that is their thing, not giving a toss about poor foxy loxy at all. IMHO that is.

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