to think M and S are now terrible employers and deserve eveything they get...

[glasgowsteven]

Long story short... A friend of mine started with M and S in Leeds, in July, on a 2 month temp contract, with about 60 others..... 30 hours a week, set shifts, nice job...

then after three months they were all given another 3 month temp contract, to take them to 27th Dec.

they were all told, that temp contracts are just a precursor to a Permanent one, and after 3 temp contracts they will all get a permanent one - with a pay rise also...

November comes

"Overtime availability please, the more shifts you are availbale for, the better it will be come contract renewal...."

December 19th comes...

"we are sorry to tell you all that there is not enough work to give the permanent staff, sorry, you all finish on 27th, but we may call you in Feb or march if we need more staff"

Reaction was mixed, disbelief, tears, or walking out, or in some cases a combination of this.....

I could have understood Christmas temps not being kept on after a month, but these folk had been there approx half a year, working full time.

The stories of people who were relying on the money, who have had their confidence trashed, who just want to give up now.....

Horrible place and if they are hitting the skids, the managers at a local level deserve all the flak that is coming

This happened to me in 1990. I was doing v part time hours though while doing a levels. Was called back in in the February on permanent contract. And then transferred to the m&s where I eventually went to university.

I'm not talking about references, I'm talking about access to benefits if they need them, the extra money they could have earned by staying...

Also they're well within their rights to refuse to do a reference.

It is the bullshit that goes on that makes it a rough deal - being honest and straight with temps is far better.

Easiest way to give a bad reference is to refuse to give one at all.

The people who walked out have acted like toddlers.
Ridiculous behaviour.

But surely most companies don't give references these days? Apart from, as stated above, a disclosure of dates worked?

I know that the biggest company I worked for not only refused to do references, but staff were forbidden from giving personal references too. I worked there for nearly ten years and was screwed when I left because basically when it came to references I might as well never have had a job in my life, as I had no one who could confirm that I was reliable or even confirm what my job had been.

Doesn't surprise me at all.

Of course M and S were in the wrong. The people who are disagreeing have obviously never been in the position of struggling for work and having the instability of an temporary job whilst trying to look after a family and pay the bills.

I was a Christmas temp there ten years ago and they pulled the same stunt then. They also gave us our hours, and then a week after we started, changed them to much more unsociable hours 'as its Christmas'- I'm sure they were well aware it was Christmas before we started.

I didn't even bother applying for a full time job there, I couldn't get out quick enough!

So because you've had one set back you walk out and might just as well claim benefits? What rubbish.
Word is M & S have not had a great Christmas season, so staff budgets have probably been cut back. That's what happens in business.
It's unfortunate if people were given the wrong impression about permanent work, but it doesn't make M&S the employer from hell.

I have been in the position of struggling to make ends meet whilst working on a temporary contract, but all I could do was assume that it was indeed a temp contract. It was horrible, really horrible. And it was horrible to get into work one Friday to discover that I was finishing that afternoon and not to bother turning up on Monday. But still, my employers didn't technically do anything wrong. They gave me a temp contract, they verbally told me it would maybe be made permanent, but in reality they had no intention of making it permanent. I approached the whole situation on the understanding that it would end at short notice, which it did. It was crap, no doubt about it, but its just the nature of the job market, and I was powerless to do anything about it.

YABU

People expect M&S to be like a parental figure, and always be there and look out for them.

But actually, it is a business, and should be treated as such. It has to look after itself first and foremost.

So because you've had one set back you walk out and might just as well claim benefits? What rubbish

Erm who said that?

Anyone who is employed on a temporary contract is going to be applying for other jobs with longer term or especially permanent contracts UNLESS they have been led to believe that their current job is going to be made permanent. By misleading their staff that this was likely they will have undoubtedly reduced the number leaving in the run up to Christmas to go to other jobs, obviously making sure they had the right number of staff was more important to them than the actual staff themselves. Merry Christmas eh?

Nothing new about this, I was on a temp contract over the festive period in 1992, some people were taken on, some weren't.

I would put money on m n s not being happy if all their temp staff had arranged new work for When their contract finished which as temp staff they would have been quite sensible to do so really

where is the evidence the intentially mislead staff into beliving there was a permanant contract?

Exactly clare8allthepies you have hit the nail on the head.

Sorry, but it was naive at best to expect a temporary contract to turn into a permanent one.

It's not a recent thing ime to dangle the prospect of a permanent contract, but you can't take it as a given if you're temporary unfortunately and need to plan what you're going to do come your finish date. I've temped a lot over the years and turned down my share of jobs because I've found something better - it works both ways.

A lot of employers wouldn't tell you till the eleventh hour (literally "we don't need you any more, don't come in tomorrow") there was no prospect of a longer contract because people start slacking and taking the piss - in that respect M&S have been fairly decent.

Blowing off the rest of your shifts is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not only do you now have no job come January, but any planned budget is also up the swannie because of your lost hours.

where is the evidence the intentially mislead staff into beliving there was a permanant contract?

Being told,

"this is just procedure, we keep staff on after 3 temp contracts"

"we needed you in July - October, so you are not just christmas temps"

"We need you to work as many hours as you can over christmas, if you do, it will increase your chance of a perm contract" - Except it wont, everyone got let go....

Blowing off the rest of your shifts is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not only do you now have no job come January, but any planned budget is also up the swannie because of your lost hours.

After 2 months of christmas shifts, you would maybe like a rest, to spend some time with family and friends, to not have to work 12 hours shifts on the weekend before christmas, all day christmas eve and a 6 am start on boxing day....

The staff who worked till the end of their contract (even the ones who never came back of they called sick) are entitled to their accrued holiday pay..which will be a nice little lump sum....

Baubles

"But the stories they told me, of young single parents, who were in tears, who had their confidence thrashed, who have now said, whats the point, I may as well just claim......"

It was in the OP's 2nd post.

OP, a temporary contract is just that, a temporary contract. Regardless of whether 99% of temp contracts turn into permanent, the contract is still temp and you should never plan ahead on it being anything other.

M & S are not in the wrong here, all the staff that didn't turn up again are.

But the stories they told me, of young single parents, who were in tears, who had their confidence thrashed, who have now said, whats the point, I may as well just claim......

Seriously. They do not get their TEMPORARY contract made permanent and it is enough to trash the poor souls' confidence to such an extent that they 'may as well just claim'.

Sounds like Marks made the right bloody decision not keeping that lot on!

Glasgowsteven

"After 2 months of christmas shifts, you would maybe like a rest, to spend some time with family and friends, to not have to work 12 hours shifts on the weekend before christmas, all day christmas eve and a 6 am start on boxing day...."

Where I work, they're working xmas day as well on 12 hour shifts. You work what you need to work, when you are scheduled to do it (and my job is permanent - people work 12 hour shifts regularly).

Fair enough glasgowsteven, just speaking from my own experience that working on a temporary contract I worked what I needed/was available so I had the finances available to cover quiet times.

I can only presume people who walk out have other plans in place to cover the unexpected shortfall.

It's not like they were being asked to work on Christmas day itself so honestly the rest is a luxury imho.

I too work 12 - 15 hour days sometimes, but I am salaried and not in a hourly paid job.

If I was on a temp contract and knew that I was not getting kert on, I would do the shifts that are in my contract.

*"all they had to say was

"this is a permanent contract, dont get any ideas about it becoming a permanent one, that is unlikely...." "*

They didn't and should have had to say anything. What part of "temporary contract" is not clear?