to think teachers need to mix it up a bit

[DDDDDORA]

When choosing children for solo parts. At my dc school it is always the same children chosen to do the solo pieces (songs/reading/acting parts). DD puts her hand up every time that the teacher is deciding who will do what and never gets picked,she is not the only child that this happens to. I understand that not all children want to take the lead but they should at least share it out fairly with those that do.

At primary age, it seems as shame to have any 'starring' roles.

I've been to about 20 nativities in total over the last few years, and all had most children saying one or two lines and everyone singing, rather than one or two children saying most of the lines.

Not a personal attack tripps, a few comments saying it makes the teachers life easier to pick the best. I'm sorry but I firmly believe that children under the age of 9 are still learning about what they like to do and what they are good at. They shouldn't have opportunities taken away before even being given the chance to have a go just to make a teachers life easier.

No poopy - I am not exaggerating about how well all teachers know the capabilities of all students.

Two dashes = underline fail. No need for your rudeness, really.

I would give all the kids a chance at some sort of important part if they want it. You can find things that will suit their different abilities and make them feel important IMO

Well I hope your child gets a good part next time, Dora. Good luck.

I seem to have been born to be a shepherd/bird/townsfolk as was DH. We have children who are shepherds/townsfolk/camels. C'est la vie IMHO

Nanny - my daughter is most definitely not shy or under confident. She would put her all into it but I guess she won't be able to prove that if never given the opportunity

Thanks tripps she will be moving to a junior school in September maybe she will be given a chance there

Dora, what do you think is the teacher's reason for not picking her?

I pick children based on how well I think they'll cope in front of an audience, how much they're capable of remembering and how hard they'll practise their lines (at home or in the playground).

I have never once picked anyone because of who their parents are. And I don't know which children did what in previous years. Even if I had seen the performances, I wouldn't have known who the children were. In my experience, the same children get picked because they've shown the same traits. There's no master plan in my school.

It makes the whole process harder if you choose children who don't have the confidence/focus/clear voices/willingness to practise.
It slows down the practices if you have to stop and coach and give extra support, and then others get bored or disruptive.
It's a hugely stressful experience for the adults involved, and picking strong performers means that there's one less thing to bother about.
The teacher will be judged on the slickness, the management, the challenge and the impact on the audience.
Drama isn't an OFSTED ticklist yet, so the expected two+ sublevels of progress don't count. No spreadsheet for drama. Possibly drama and performance will become extinct over the next decade, too much wasted time in a world where a learning opportunity and progress need to happen every 20 minutes.

I'm an old-fashioned teacher, and I do think that all children should be involved, and that it is fantastic to see someone succeed when they never thought they would. I am notorious for wedging as many children as possible into a performance, and I keep checklists through the year so I know who's done what at different events.
But as yorkshirepuddings said, that's the sweet, old-fashioned way and not current practice.

Good balanced post silverapples

When I was a teacher, all the staff got together to cast the school plays. We had lists of who had done what before and made sure that every single child got a role. It was hard work but crucial IMO to ensure everyone got an opportunity to shine. On the whole the children rose to everything we threw at them and the parents were delighted with the results. BUT the fashion for full-scale staged productions with lighting etc means it seems to have become a very precious event, with auditions, stress and the quiet/less confident ones do miss out

I'm sure everyone at the OP s daughter's school does have a role. However her complaint is that her daughter's roles aren'tsufficiently high profile compared to those of others.

Presumably this is an extra curricular activity? Why don't you enrol your daughter in Stagecoach or similar? Why is it the school's responsibility?

I think parents need to get out more. It's only a school play not anything important. It's only the fragile egos of the mums that are damaged. This is exactly why I work full time, I think I would wither and die if I had to live my life through a six year old

Some children are confident, clear speakers, until they get given lines to say on stage. I've seen it happen at an infant school production where this little girl who was so confident usually, just completely shrank and obviously hated it so much. It's not comfortable viewing for anyone, nor, do I think, taught her anything other than she hated to be on stage.
Equally well, some quiet shy children are totally the opposite when it comes to performing.
It's also reliability, and ability to remember instructions and lines.
I remember someone I was at school with who was very good actor, but never remembered his lines. Fine if everyone else could cope, but he'd come out with lines in the middle of no where and throw everyone else-who then looked at fault. I remember his mum saying it had to be favouritism that he didn't get the main role once, but he was really difficult to work with.

At my dc's school they did one year production (not my dc) where every child had a line or two. 150 in the year. After an hour most of the parents had lost the will to live. They universally said it was the worst production they had ever seen. Several said they would rather have their child in the back row of the choir than sit through another like that. So whereas "everyone says something" might sound tremendously fair, it isn't necessarily the best thing to do.

'So whereas "everyone says something" might sound tremendously fair, it isn't necessarily the best thing to do.'

Which is where elements of a Greek chorus are handy to include.

I think it is understandable that teachers want to pick a 'safe pair of hands' for the main roles in Christmas shows. However I agree it doesn't need to be 'the best' child every year, all the capable ones should get a chance.
For the audience it is dire if you can't follow the plot because you can't hear what is being said or the children need continual prompting.

However, I do think that schools should ensure that all children get a chance to practice speaking in public during the year, eg at class assemblies, otherwise the shyer ones never get a chance to develop their skills.

(Parent of one outgoing child who got picked for quite a lot of things, and a younger shyer child who needs a chance to develop skills somewhere. And by the way, not on PTA for picked child, but on PTA for the non-picked one)

I work with children in shows and it is a fine line between parents thinking their own offspring is capable and them actually being capable.

We are very aware of which children are able to have main parts, which children are capable of handling a smaller part and which children you are doing well to simply get on stage. We cater for all of them and encourage all abilities.

But in order to be able to encourage all abilities we HAVE to have the main parts in the hands of a child who is able to invest the time in learning and won't get frightened. We need the more able dramatically to carry the show so everyone can have a chance at being on stage.

I have had parents try and insist on their child having a main part and when it comes down to it child is positively terrified.

At DS school it is ALWAYS the same children that get the best parts - school plays, class assemblies, school council etc. They are either the children of pushy parents who complain about anything (one parent this year complained her daughter only had 5 lines - most in the class had none!) or the 'in crowd' parents. The rest of us don't get a look in.

There are a few children who go to stage school in DS year but don't get picked. One girl who had one of the main parts AGAIN stood on the stage pulling 'look at me aren't I pretty' poses through out the show and had to be fed all of her lines AGAIN!!! Her mum helps out in the school a lot but I don't think that this is fair on the kids who have working parents or have younger siblings that need to be cared for.

Do it on ability (auditions) or rotation but not on parents!! There will be some kids who naturally don't want a big part which is fine but others might want to try.

A friends DD came home in tears as she has been overlooked again and asked her mum to either make her prettier or more clever so she can get a part next time. Destroying self esteem at Y3. Way to go!!

Mary and Joseph in the infant nativity will also be the class representatives whenever anything needs represented. They will be in the top groups for everything, chosen for the choir and instrumental tuition. They will win art prizes. They will be the house captains/sports captains and make any presentations or speeches required. They will go on to be prefects at secondary, if not head boy and girl. As is my experience.

I was never Mary.

Drama isn't an OFSTED ticklist yet, so the expected two+ sublevels of progress don't count. No spreadsheet for drama. Possibly drama and performance will become extinct over the next decade, too much wasted time in a world where a learning opportunity and progress need to happen every 20 minutes.
^This

Drama and anything else fun isn't deemed necessary by Gove and Ofsted

Rehearsals have to be shoehorned into a ridiculously short time frame.

It's natural teachers choose a safe option

Yes, at primary I think that would be good.

I also think that if the teacher is going to choose based on ability, it would be better not to go through the slightly redundant 'put your hand up if you'd like to be Mary' thing, because that is obviously going to result in upset. If you are choosing based on who has a nice singing voice/speaks clearly/is confident - just read out your list and don't make it open to debate, I think!

Actually the couple of times I can remember who Mary was at DDs school she was really shy because Mary just sits hugging a doll on the back platform. Everyone dances and sings on the lower one or the hall floor.

Narrators, Joseph, kings and the arc angel get the lines.

towicymru, that's not true at ds2 school.
Ds2 is one of those children that are picked for everything.

I work full time, I am not on the PTA, I don't do the school run, because DS goes to after school club, I don't really know any of the other parents and I have only seen his teacher once since September

His getting picked for things is nothing to do with me.