to think teachers need to mix it up a bit

[DDDDDORA]

When choosing children for solo parts. At my dc school it is always the same children chosen to do the solo pieces (songs/reading/acting parts). DD puts her hand up every time that the teacher is deciding who will do what and never gets picked,she is not the only child that this happens to. I understand that not all children want to take the lead but they should at least share it out fairly with those that do.

[cory]

Dh never got picked for the big parts either. He was at school with Hugh Grant...

[cory]

I was not criticising your parenting abilities, DDDDDora: I was talking of those parents who make it clear they are only interested in their own child. Every primary school performance I have been to has been marred by at least one parent of this sort: the kind of parent who never seems to take any interest or pleasure from a good performance by somebody else's child. I never said you were among them.

Anyway, if your dd is not even in junior school yet, is it not a bit early for you to feel disgruntled on her behalf? That is only at the most 3 nativity plays she has not had a speaking part in; it's hardly a lifetime of rejection. She still has the whole of junior to go, and real drama classes in secondary (unless Gove does away with them). She has plenty of time to get picked for all sorts of things.

Dd never got picked for her infants plays either. But has had plenty of opportunities to make up for it since.

For the record, ds would have loved a chance of playing for the school football team as he loves football. As he is now 13, I think I can say confidently that this is never going to happen. But frankly I can also see why it hasn't happened. Football, like drama, is a team game. It becomes harder if one of the players isn't up to it.

He was disappointed. But it was my job to help him overcome that disappointment and show him how he could enjoy football in other ways, playing with his friends.

Auditions does seem the fairest way. But it won't stop children feeling hard done by or parents feeling disgruntled.

[BabyMummy29]

We always ask for children who would be interested in singing or speaking parts and then audition them. However we still get complaints and grief from parents whose children weren't chosen.

Our music teacher even had an irate parent call at her door and demand to know why her daughter wasn't a soloist!

[Goldenbear]

Yes, that's what happens in our school- hands up and the teacher chooses.

It is completely unacceptable to write off 4-7 year olds for seemingly not possessing a 'talent' for acting. I find it rather worrying that a teacher can think about 'ability' in such a limited way. I have never seen or heard an outstanding performance at a Nativity play- they are simply too young for that to be the reality. It is not comparable to sport, where exceptional skill really does stand out when a child is very young; even then I know of children who have been coached continuously from a very young age, which undoubtedly has contributed to their success.

[DDDDDORA]

Hula if they did auditions like you describe then I would say iabu but they sit them in a classroom and say who wants a speaking/solo part raise your hand, once hands are raised they then say x you have this part and y you have this part. Which makes me think I'm not being unreasonable because it just seems like the teachers have favourites and the other children will have to deal with it. My DD got very upset and that is why I wrote this post I was hoping for some understanding from a teachers point of view. Thank you for all the responses I have come to the conclusion that I am being a little bit unreasonable

[Boaty]

This is nothing new I'm afraid...my DC had this at school and they are now in their twenties.
DS2 was always pushed out in favour of one boy in particular..the mother helped with music in the school, dad was on governors, elder DB was shining light in the grammar school...
My DS was a church chorister, had a far better speaking and singing voice. Even the other boy thought so but he always lost out until the leavers show and DS outshone him...the teacher, in front of the HT, turned to me and said 'hasn't juniorboaty got a lovely voice, he has been hiding his light under a bushell' My DS looked up and firmly said 'no I didn't, you weren't interested in me!' The teacher looked embarrassed and I enjoyed her discomfort

[juniper9]

Silverapples OFSTED came whilst year 6 were practising their production. They watched them for some time and did give feedback to the teachers.

[BabyMummy29]

As a teacher involved in musical activities, we constantly get hassle over the children who are chosen to sing or play instruments.

Apparently it seems to be acceptable to say that children are chosen for sports if they are the best swimmer/footballer etc, but it's not acceptable to say chlld X or Y was chosen because they were the best singer or violin player.

I blame the X Factor and all the other reality shite for making people believe they are all talented.

[purplebaubles]

Teachers know who can handle the spotlight, who is good at reading and who is a little performer!

Sorry, YABU. Life's unfair. Yes, it starts at school Schools have already made sport non-competitive. For goodness sake, of course the best performers should get the good parts!

[Neverhere]

We ask the children who would like to have a speaking role (all children have a role, go on stage, dress up and sing). Then from that group choose the most competent at learning lines/speaking clearly and behaving on stage for the biggest part. Everyone who wanted to speak did, we just grouped less confident/quite children together to do shared lines. We did our performance today and they were fantastic!

[Hulababy]

BTW - we do it this way and have notes etc made as this means if a parent takes issue with who gets what role we have a paper trial to back up what we say.

[Hulababy]

I work in Y2. We don't do a nativity but we do an end of year show in July. We do auditions, in front of the Y2 teaching staff and in front of their peers - so 90 children in room.

They decide which parts to go for and hghlight if they would be interested in:
a large acting part with several lines
a smaller acting & talking part
a non talking acting part
part of the choir/ensemble

They then go and sit in those groups on the afternoon. They are given a short talking part (if going for a talking part) to learn, along with some suggestions for expression and how to act that part - so about 30-60 sec worth of talk/act. They have about 15-20 minutes to practise, with support from teaching staff.

Those wanting a non talking part or a part in choir/ensemble usually watch and form the audience = we don't need them to audition at that stage, but for those who do want to audition we want to see how they come when put on the spot and in front of others - and, especially for a main part, how they can fill the room with their voices as we perform in a larger room than our hall.

After that practise time the all sit and watch and we call them out in small groups. We then have them line up and one end of hall facing teaching staff, and then are called forward 1 by 1 to "perform" their practised bit. Teaching staff make notes during this time. All get a huge clap from their peers.

It is a bit of pressure but in a very controlled way. We accept some neres and its all done very gently, even though it sounds a lot more presured - it really isn't, it works well and is generally a good fun atmosphere in the hall.

The teaching staff then go away and argue it out between themselves. We try to let them know by the next day.

Everyone who wants a talking part will get one - though obviously not everyone will get a big part, even if they wanted one. If necessary we will make up extra speaking bits even if just one short line or talking with a partner or two. This is explained beforehand, especially when noting down specific characters they are interested in. We also explain that we don't want any of the whole insisting on only one part or nothing at all - they will be offered a part and if they refuse it that may mean they don't have a talking part at all, or a much smaller one - we wont pull people out of their given role just because a child complains. We definitely won't if it si a parent complaining.

If we get someone very good who only put down for a small part we may chat to them to make sure they wouldn't rather have a big part too.

[DDDDDORA]

To be clear, it is not me that wants DD to have a lead role, it is DD herself. Every time there is an assembly or production the teachers ask the whole year who want a speaking/solo part to raise their hand and then pick the same children, why ask them if they have already decided? Cory - do not criticise my parenting skills, you do not know me, my children are being raised to understand it is the taking part that matters but DD would like to have a go at saying a line all by herself. I would like to know why the teacher doesn't pick her especially after telling me (after her show and tell) that she is a very confident public speaker which is a useful tool for later in life. I accept she will not be chosen whilst at this school, maybe the teachers at her junior school will give her a chance if she still wants to have a go then. It just seems unfair that it's always the same kids and no one else gets the opportunity

[42notTrendy]

It's also worth pointing out, that if a school does a 'traditional' nativity, then there will only be a few main parts. This means that there are likely to be a number of disappointed kids, who also put their hands up for a part. So YABU.
You could suggest the school change their approach and try a performance that involves everyone and doesn't have 'main parts' and offer to help...

[Goldenbear]

Oh yes that is a different scenario. Don't get me wrong I don't think it is a common situation.

[Fleta]

Just to be specific this is a drama group and not a bog-standard class activity, therefore you assume that the children are invested in it (or the parents are just using it as childcare.....interestingly it is these parents that want the best parts for their offspring!)

[Fleta]

Goldenbear - I work with 4 - 9 year olds. The four year olds will never be the main parts whilst there are older children in it - but if they want to have a small speaking part then I put a small one in. By the time they are aged 9 they may well be able to take the main parts.

I realise I didn't explain very well - I should have added "this year or next year". But I believe by NOT pressuring everyone to have a part and allowing children to grow at their own pace they have a much greater chance of succeeding. I don't bow to parental will

I do keep telling them the ensemble is JUST as important as the speaking roles.

[Goldenbear]

Fleta, how old are these children that you believe will never be the 'main' part? My own reference is to DS's school and the last 3 years productions- ages 4-7(only a few). Making predictions about 'acting' ability/talent for the rest of their school days is ludicrous! Incidentally, my DS was chosen for a main king part in Reception and he was an Angel in YR1 with a few lines so they haven't deemed him uncapable at age 4 and 5. However, our nativity plays have an added dimension to them so there is always a special lead role, every year one child of a very very pushy mum has had this role. The child is not animated when he is acting. There are no Peter O'Toole performances, believe or not, from a bunch of 6 year olds. The school is big so it is a very big coincidence.

It doesn't matter but as I pointed out in my last post influence and unfairness does take place in schools occasionally it is naive to think otherwise.

[Fleta]

I am sure the teachers don't expect an amazing end product. But it does make their lives easier if rehearsals go smoothly because the selected children are willing and able to put the work in, it is embarrassing for the child who sings completely off key or cannot remember his lines when he's got the big solo/speech, and it is very difficult for the other children taking part in a scene if a main character cannot behave or simply stands there doing nothing.

This absolutely. Because this year my main characters were children who went away and learned their parts and could take stage direction, it meant I had time to spend a considerable amount of time helping another two children who desperately wanted a part but couldn't remember lines to be in it. These latter two children are never going to be main parts, but they were in the performance and were able to be in it because I had given the main parts to the most able.

[cory]

And I cannot understand the mentality of parents who only go to see their own precious little offspring and then talk or check their emails whenever somebody else's child is singing or speaking.

When I go to the theatre, even if it's a nativity play in a primary school, I want to enjoy the performance as a whole, and that is what I want my children to enjoy too: being part of a whole. Otherwise, imho, you take away a great deal of the joy.

[cory]

I also think it's good to teach children that a theatrical production isn't just about individuals shining- it's not X Factor- but about everybody pulling together to make something for the audience to enjoy. If you approach it in the right way as a parent your children will get the message that it's not a Me-Me exercise.

[CaterpillarCara]

Agree with a poster above. My children have had no more success being cast in the main roles when I was on the PTA and helping in school than when I was not. I really think that in most cases, that it is probably sour grapes to see casting through that lens.

[cory]

I am sure the teachers don't expect an amazing end product. But it does make their lives easier if rehearsals go smoothly because the selected children are willing and able to put the work in, it is embarrassing for the child who sings completely off key or cannot remember his lines when he's got the big solo/speech, and it is very difficult for the other children taking part in a scene if a main character cannot behave or simply stands there doing nothing.

[Feminine]

I think they should do away with all plays...nativities etc...

Instead they should teach them all do do the conga excellently!

although I suspect there will be some parents who will always want their child to go at the front

[Onsera3]

YANBU.

It's not Broadway. It's not about how polished the performance is. It's about the children taking part.

I only had to put on one Christmas play but I asked who wanted speaking parts and added characters to the script so that anyone who wanted one got one. Non speaking parts for the rest. The most coveted roles went to those who'd worked hardest during the term.

I don't think it should matter if they don't deliver an amazing end product. It's supposed to be an enjoyable learning experience for every pupil.