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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not actually understand what constitutes a "professional job"?

109 replies

BakerStreetSaxRift · 17/12/2013 16:22

Hello, this could be a stupid question, but I did try googling it and couldn't get a straight answer.

Could someone please explain what the criteria are for having a professional job? I'm trying to work out if I have one.

I've read various things that say doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, electricians, train/bus drivers (or anything you need a licence for), engineers etc are all professional jobs. But that seems a bit like any job can be described as professional. Would it be easier to work out which ones aren't?

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:

WilsonFrickett · 17/12/2013 17:03

The problem is the meaning has changed over time.

Now 'professional' is used to denote 'someone who gets paid for what they do', for eg professional signer, writer, dancer etc etc.

It's also used to denote something which is 'done well' eg my window cleaner has 'professional cleaning' on his wee cards, which he is using to mean 'I'm good at cleaning your windows'.

Generally though I take it to mean something with a qualification, a professional body and something you need to be personal liability insurance to carry out. Oddly the last definition is quite helpful...

Original poster

BakerStreetSaxRift · 17/12/2013 17:07

Apologies Gasman, I didn't mean to insult! I knew doctors did a LOT of extra training after their degree, but didn't realise they all had to do more exams etc, unless you were going down the surgery/pediatrician/etc route.

Albert, thank you for the boost But if I am only working towards Chartered Status, but so far only have a certificate and am working towards a diploma, and if it would be possible (but unlikely) for someone without a degree or working towards these exams to do the job, would that still be a professional job, or do I need to wait until all my exams are finished?

My job is very specialised, does that make a difference?

OP posts:

BrownSauceSandwich · 17/12/2013 17:17

It's not a word I'd use... Smacks of classism to me. Codes for "my job makes me a more important human being than you".

Original poster

BakerStreetSaxRift · 17/12/2013 17:25

I kind of agree BrownSauce, it's kind of why I'm asking as the expression has been used to me a few times by people and each time I've felt unlike they were putting me/people down/bigging their family up. Some of the positions they were saying it about I don't dispute (doctor, lawyer) but others (large shop manager, oil rig worker/train driver/sales job etc) I thought was a bit of a grey area, and wondered what made it one or the other.

OP posts:

insancerre · 17/12/2013 17:37

My job title says professional in it, I am an Early Years Professional.
I have a degree and have passed a post-grad training course, but most people would consider me to be a very highly qualified nursery nurse.
Which is why the government has changed it to Early Years Teacher Status.

MaidOfStars · 17/12/2013 17:43

Wiki lists my occupation as a "profession" but I am not a member of a professional association (I think there are moves to create some kind of national register) and there is no overarching regulatory body. As for protected titles, well lots of people seem to think that my title indicates an entirely different occupation, one where the practitioners very often don't technically qualify for my title...but it IS a protected title for them...

So no idea

However, I would argue that the gap between what I do and what an electrician does is very small. We are both trained specialists in our field. It's just my field requires a doctorate to proceed, and an electrician's doesn't. It's all skilled labour to me

cornflower123 · 17/12/2013 17:50

Definitely smacks of classism - agree with BrownSauce. eg. why do you need a professional to sign your passport form? Isn't any trustworthy person good enough?

MaidOfStars · 17/12/2013 17:54

eg. why do you need a professional to sign your passport form? Isn't any trustworthy person good enough?
You don't and it is. You must be "of good standing" in your community (which I suppose is a proxy for "trustworthy").

wifeofdoom · 17/12/2013 18:00

Professional engineer needs masters degree, 3yrs evidence of on job competence, portfolio and possibly exam to become chartered.

I think with passports etc it is because you can be removed from your professional body if you bring the profession into disrepute - so if you misrepresented something on the form you could be barred from institution and therefore unable to work. Good incentive to be honest!

akachan · 17/12/2013 18:00

You don't need a degree to be a lawyer or you certainly didn't used to. I don't know any who don't have a degree though.

cornflower123 · 17/12/2013 18:01

You're quite right (just checked!) - you can tell how long it is since I've applied for a passport!

Original poster

BakerStreetSaxRift · 17/12/2013 18:21

Would an engineer with a B.Eng with a graduate engineering job be a professional? I'd have thought it would.

OP posts:

NigellaLaw5on · 17/12/2013 18:28

evilkitten That's the biggest load of tosh I've read on this forum, train driving is a highly skilled professional job.

Scrutler · 17/12/2013 18:31

Widow - another buyer here. I don't know anyone in the profession who intentionally entered it!

Original poster

BakerStreetSaxRift · 17/12/2013 18:33

Train drivers could be responsible for 1000s of people's lives if something went wrong. It takes a full year of pretty intense training. And they do final exams and get a professional train driver's licence.

I have a friend doing a masters in Adult Nursing, having never done any kind of science or medical degree previously (in fact, didn't actually finish his degree), and it's only 3 days a week. So I find it weird that one is more professional than the other.

OP posts:

caroldecker · 17/12/2013 18:35

Professions don't get paid overtime

lastnightIwenttoManderley · 17/12/2013 18:47

bakerstreet (amazing name btw, colleague had that stuck in her head and for the life of me couldn't remember the name. Found it by googling 'amazing sax solos'!)

ANYWAY! I'm a Chartered Engineer. 5yr degree, 4yrs on the job training, 2hr interview then 7(yes, seven) he exam to get my full qualification. I think most people would call BEng a professional as they are working in a profession but I only started doing passport signatory bits once I had my CEng.

Incidentally, I studied a combined architecture degree and we're always ribbing the architects about how they convinced the world that they have it so bad for studying for 7yrs in a simular pattern i.e. degree and then on the job. This is very common in a lot of sectors and can even take much longer, as noted above for doctors!

lastnightIwenttoManderley · 17/12/2013 18:48

Oops...7 hr!

caroldecker if only...

catdoctor · 17/12/2013 18:53

As roadwalker said plus an unwritten expectation to go above and beyond the call of duty for no other reason that it being the right thing to do.

Not classist or snobbish, just a way of life.

As several posters have said, word has expanded to indicate work done well or with dedication.

For me personally my professional status is a statement of honourable intention - that sounds pretty snobbish!!

WidowWadman · 17/12/2013 18:57

Scrutler - I actually do know a few, but I guess the majority are accidental. I love my job though and am glad to see that it started to has become more recognised as a distinct function rather than just clerical support.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 17/12/2013 19:03

I would call an airline pilot a profession but not a train driver but am trying to work out why exactly...

NigellaLaw5on · 17/12/2013 19:07

If train driving wasnt professional then they wouldn't be paid around 50k per year for it.

OnaPromise · 17/12/2013 19:07

What roadwalker said. There are certain professional titles you are not allowed to called yourself by law unless you have specific qualifications and are registered with a professional body.

mistermakersgloopyglue · 17/12/2013 19:09

Ha ha, my DH has a bugbear about 'engineers'. He is an automotive engineer with a B.Eng who works in the development and testing of car engines/emissions etc or something like that

He gets most cross when my friend's dad, who fixes air conditioning units, refers to himself as an 'engineer' or my colleagues husband who is a telecoms 'engineer'. He is just a big snob though really, I am just like

stargirl1701 · 17/12/2013 19:11

A professional job requires membership of a professional body. Doctors must be registered with the GMC. Teachers with the GTC (although I believe this isn't the case in England?).

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