AIBU or is exH? Christmas access over dc.

[PirateJelly]

Dc is 5. Me and xh split up when dc was only a toddler, we spent the first two Christmas days together and since then I've had dc Xmas eve,Xmas day and then xh has picked dc up boxing day morning and had them until new years day. My ex told me when we split up he was happy for me to have dc every Christmas day as his family always make a big deal of boxing day and he wasn't that in to Christmas anyway. Fine with me.

This year however he decided it wasn't fair that I get our dc every Christmas and basically demanded that he collects him Christmas eve afternoon and will bring him back on the morning of the 27th. I told him that wasn't fair as I'd never had him for the entire Christmas period and he should at least come back boxing day. ExH got angry and said that they always do something special boxing day and I know that so he would definitely need dc boxing day too.

I got very upset about this as dc is just starting to understand what Christmas is about and we have been setting Christmas traditions in place, especially things we do on Christmas eve. I putty foot down and said he could collect our dc in Christmas morning, begrudgingly he agree to this and said he would collect dc at 9.30am Christmas day. The more I thought about it the more I realised that idea was no good either as dc would have to rush to open his toys and would really get a chance to play with them. So I told my ex fine, pick him up Christmas eve, but make it as late as possible.

I feel I should state here my exH lives an hours drive away and on his wishes has our dc 2 weekends a month. I have never, ever denied him access or made things difficult and i try to involve him in his Childs life as much as I can, despite him seeming uninterested when dc is with me.

Anyway as the weeks have gone on dc has
become increasing reluctant to spend time with his dad, crying and refusing to go at collection and refusing to speak on the phone to him. Dc told me "I hate daddy and don't want to see him" I kept telling him not to be silly and eventually managed to get dc to open up and tell me what the matter was. Dc told me it was
because they didn't want to spend Christmas day at daddy's. Since then we've had tears a few times and lots of insistence that he's not spending Christmas day at daddy's.

To complicate matters further I have just got a part time job, the only days I have off over Christmas are Christmas eve, Christmas day and boxing day. Obviously this means if dc comes back the day after boxing day I am nit going to get a full day to do our Christmas with dc at all. I'm in bits about this.

So when exH came to pick dc up on Friday I explained my work situation to him. He just pulled a face and tried changing the subject. I then said discreetly that while I was happy for dc to spend time with him Christmas I felt he should know that our child has expressed that he was very upset about spending Christmas day away from mummy and that that's why he had started being hostile towards his dad. Ex made no comment on this.

As they were leaving I said well, what are we going to do about Christmas? Ex sighed and looked irritated and said " well I knew you'd pull something like this, right I guess I could bring him home boxing day morning even though we were going out for the day and everyones looking forward to seeing him BUT if that's the case then I will pick him up Sunday (22nd) morning". So that means I will miss out on all the days running up to Christmas whenyself and dc go to church, visit Santa, bake cakes, visit family all the little things we both love. I will just have him boxing day before going back to work.

I feel like putting my foot down and saying he can pick dc up early Christmas day afternoon and keep him for a few days but I know Ex will go mad at this suggestion. He has threatened me with going to court for full custody before and I know he'll say he'll take me to court

The thing is is our dc really wanted to spend Christmas day there then I honestly wouldn't stand in his way and I swear I haven't put any of these ideas about Christmas in his head. Dc is just going through a mummy stage at the moment.

So would I be unreasonable to tell ex I'm putting our Childs wishes before his own am to take me to court about if he wants? As I say I've never denied access and I'm happy to share christmas, a judge wouldn't be interested in this would they?

Help!
And sorry it's much longer than I meant it to be

Sorry about typos I'm on my phone and dc is 4 not 5.

I think you've been more than fair. I would have him pick him up Christmas afternoon and ignore his threats of court etc. children should have a voice in these situations and your son has expressed his preference

YANBU at all. I would hate not to have DC xmas day. Could you have half xmas day each then share the other days? Offer him in an email then if it does go to court you can prove you have tried to negotiate.

The whole thing sounds like such a mess, you're going to suck the fun right out of Christmas for your child.

I suspect some of the upset he feels, is because he's caught in the middle of two adults tugging him this way and that.

I don't know what to suggest for this Christmas, but for next Christmas and every single one after that...I suggest you stop trying to get things written in stone.

Circumstances change and so do children, so every year will have to be planned according to that fact.

Either way, you two are going to have to start putting the most important person first - your son.

I'd just tell him that the children aren't happy with the arrangements so you've come up with a new plan. You have them until Christmas Day afternoon and then he has them from then til whenever you decide. That way everyone gets their special days (you the lead up, him Boxing Day) and everyone gets a bit of Christmas Day too.

You're happy to share Christmas? Really? It doesn't sound like it to me. I think you are very wrong to agree to him having DC for Christmas and then changing your mind at the last minute. I think it suits you for your child to not want to go as it gives you an excuse to change the arrangements. You should be building up your child's enthusiasm for going and encouraging him to go. I think that if it goes to court the judge will be interested and your exH will most likely be given alternate Christmas.

Let him take you to court

I agree with Skippy.

I think your DS is picking up on the tension and the fact you're 'in bits' about things. It also isn't your XP's fault you have got a job and are less available for the time around Christmas. I don't know what the solution is but I think you are really loading a lot of emotion into this, which isn't in your son's best interests.

I think as you're off Christmas Eve you should suggest having him Christmas Eve/Christmas morning, then ex has Christmas day afternoon/boxing day?

And as much as going to court because you can't sort out Christmas is beyond pathetic, I think it's probably the best thing for your child if it cuts all this tugging him back and forth.

But even then a judge is bound to tell you that putting the child first, is always better than writing firm arrangements in stone...because circumstances and people change.

Worra you are always such a bubble of fun.
Op - things will change as the kids get older however him having the kids the whole Christmas period is unreasonable . Afternoon of Christmas day is a fair compromise.

Sorry, was I supposed to tap dance to the tune of Jingle Bells while typing that?

I would be more than happy to split christmas with one of us having before and one of us having after with Christmas day split down the middle but exH refused that suggestion. That's why he begrudgingly agreed to collect at 9.30 am Christmas day because if he had to collect him after lunch it would mean he can't have a drink until he's picked him up. This is what us causing a lot of the difficultly, ex has a car and at present I don't so I have to rely on him to pick dc up. In the past when I drove we used to split contact pick ups with me driving dc down to this dads and his dad bringing him back. Obviously the car situation is making things tricky.

And I honestly was happy for dc's dad to have him the whole of Christmas day. I'd planned and more adult Chrysler day with dp and tbh I don't have as much money this year so dc being at his dads Christmas morning would have taken some of the pressure of creating the 'sea of presents' effect I've got in the habit of going for. It would have meant dc could just come back here to simple sack of presents instead.

The reason I am now unhappy is because no.1 dc is genuinely unhappy about the arrangement despite the fact I have tried to be positive about it. I told him father Christmas would no where to go and even spoke to his dad about the christmas eve traditions and routines dc has so he wouldn't be disapointed. Dc has just started school and has become incredibly clingy to me recently.

And the second reason is the fact the dc's dad is expecting him for near enough the entire Christmas period, I have never done that to him. If I ever say anything ex doesn't agree with I always get "well how about I have him full time and you just have him weekends? You know if we go to court I'll get custody" As u said I have NEVER denied access and he wanted he could see him every day but obviously distance prevents that.

When I was growing up Mum had me Christmas Eve and half of Christmas day, Dad took me the other half and boxing day. He'd usually have me until New Year.

It sounds like this would be best for you guys too. That way you get Christmas Eve which seems more important to you, you split Christmas day and he gets Boxing day which seems important to him. Whether he agrees or not is another thing entirely though... Yanbu btw, I don't think any parent would be happy about basically not seeing their DC at Christmas at all.

I'm curious, why does his refusal have more power than yours? If he can't be arsed to wait until after lunch to have a drink so he can pick up his child, then tough titties he misses out, not you. He can choose between having his child for Christmas Day and waiting for a drink or having an early drink and waiting until Boxing Day to see his child. Present it as a done deal and stand your ground.

I would suggest that you offer Christmas day from 12 and you get Christmas eve and he gets boxing day and you do this every year unless circumstances change.

You seem to have had the best deal for the last few years, it's all about give and take, this year it is your turn to give.

I should add my new job is in care and it is only because I've only just started that my Manager is letting me have Christmas day and boxing day off. There is a very high possibility that after this year I will be working alternate christmas's anyway. (which I'm more than happy to do)

I personally think if he's that desperate to see his son Christmas Day he should get over it and spend the day at yours (if that's no problem for you ). Partner split from his ex 7 years ago and he's always seen his children at hers. He's never attempted to take them away. He does over usually in the afternoon with their gifts and spends a good few hour there.
I'd be devastated if I was you. I'm so so looking forward than Christmas as I any wait to see my kid face when he opens his pressies. And wouldn't want it any other time than Christmas morning !!

I was going to yabu, but after reading your post I think the child comes first.

He doesn't want to spend Christmas with his dad, and that should be taken seriously.

I would be keeping the contact arrangement you both made years ago about Christmas.

To be honest I lost track of who was having the DC and when, what I mostly got was lots of chopping and changing of minds and to be blunt it sounded like your ex made suggestions, you agreed them and then changed your mind. That's probably why he's hacked off.

Yes he once said you have DC for Christmas but he is allowed to change his mind.
I think the suggestion of Christmas Eve to Christmas lunch (say 1pm) with one parent and then Christmas Say afternoon to Boxing Day night with the other is the best way.
If you don't currently have a car, you can hire one to share the pick up / drop off.
You just both need to decide who gets which, maybe encourage him to pick up in Christmas Day as he could then keep them for longer while your at work. And no child needs a sea of presents regardless of money situations.

That's what I think would be best, split Christmas day in half. That is what I was going to suggest to exH and wanted to know if suggesting that would be unreasonable? Well not suggesting as I've already politely suggested it and was told no way by exH so I guess I would have to say this is how it's going to be. I said he could pick ds up at 12.30 (knowing his mum doesn't do lunch until at least 2.30pm) but he flatly refused because it was unfair as he wouldn't be able to have a drink! His mum only lives half an hour from mine and he'd be driving over there for lunch anyway so I can't see why it's such a big deal?

Oh and I should also mention unless traditions have changed that ExH doesnt open presents untill they get to
his parents house, so it's not like he's missing out in seeing ds's face first thing Christmas morning or anything.

I do think that despite mentrying to hide it, some of you are probably right and ds is picking up on the tension. Me and ds's dad have always had a good relationship (even spending the 1st Christmas after we'd broken up together for our sons sake) I'll probably get flamed for saying this but the breakdown in our parental relationship has broken down significantly since his new partner started getting involved, and trust me recently she is very involved.

What's the plan for next year.

I'd tell him you'll offer to split Christmas day, he can pick up at 12noon or later if that's best for him, but not earlier.

Let him take you to court, if there's a chance you'll have to work next year, you could offer those days to your exH, because his family do a big thing on Boxing day shouldn't mean he always gets boxing day unless he's prepared for you to always have Christmas eve and Christmas morning.

If you offer it this year, you can always suggest next year it's swapped (so you could work Christmas eve and Christmas morning, picking up mid afternoon, most parents would want the morning at home to do present opening so you'll probably get that shift), but it's not your days that are alternated but his day of Boxing day is set in stone and he never has to give that up.

If ex wants to pick ds up at 9.30 and you suggest 12 really you are just arguing over 2.5 hours. I don't think that amount of time is worth the hassle!

Is there a reason why you and ex cant spend Christmas morning together? Ex could over at 9.30 you could both play with the new toys and then ex and ds leave at 12ish, that idea might make the situation easier for your dp to except.

We have never had DSS Christmas day. He's now 18 and in the 14 years since DH and his exw split DSS has sent every Christmas day with his mum. For their first christmas separated DH went back to the family home and spent some of the day with his son but from then on he has picked DSS up Boxing day am and we do Christmas day all over again. DSS usually goes home 27th/28th and then comes again for New Year and we get NYE and NYD.

DH has always gone with this as he did not want DSS to be torn between his parents/homes and as a Mum I couldn't imagine not having my boys around for Christmas. DH has found it hard to not see DSS Christmas day but thinks it is for the best.

Not sure what will happen this year as DSS is now at Uni so am sure he'll be off out NYE!