AIBU or is exH? Christmas access over dc.

[PirateJelly]

Dc is 5. Me and xh split up when dc was only a toddler, we spent the first two Christmas days together and since then I've had dc Xmas eve,Xmas day and then xh has picked dc up boxing day morning and had them until new years day. My ex told me when we split up he was happy for me to have dc every Christmas day as his family always make a big deal of boxing day and he wasn't that in to Christmas anyway. Fine with me.

This year however he decided it wasn't fair that I get our dc every Christmas and basically demanded that he collects him Christmas eve afternoon and will bring him back on the morning of the 27th. I told him that wasn't fair as I'd never had him for the entire Christmas period and he should at least come back boxing day. ExH got angry and said that they always do something special boxing day and I know that so he would definitely need dc boxing day too.

I got very upset about this as dc is just starting to understand what Christmas is about and we have been setting Christmas traditions in place, especially things we do on Christmas eve. I putty foot down and said he could collect our dc in Christmas morning, begrudgingly he agree to this and said he would collect dc at 9.30am Christmas day. The more I thought about it the more I realised that idea was no good either as dc would have to rush to open his toys and would really get a chance to play with them. So I told my ex fine, pick him up Christmas eve, but make it as late as possible.

I feel I should state here my exH lives an hours drive away and on his wishes has our dc 2 weekends a month. I have never, ever denied him access or made things difficult and i try to involve him in his Childs life as much as I can, despite him seeming uninterested when dc is with me.

Anyway as the weeks have gone on dc has
become increasing reluctant to spend time with his dad, crying and refusing to go at collection and refusing to speak on the phone to him. Dc told me "I hate daddy and don't want to see him" I kept telling him not to be silly and eventually managed to get dc to open up and tell me what the matter was. Dc told me it was
because they didn't want to spend Christmas day at daddy's. Since then we've had tears a few times and lots of insistence that he's not spending Christmas day at daddy's.

To complicate matters further I have just got a part time job, the only days I have off over Christmas are Christmas eve, Christmas day and boxing day. Obviously this means if dc comes back the day after boxing day I am nit going to get a full day to do our Christmas with dc at all. I'm in bits about this.

So when exH came to pick dc up on Friday I explained my work situation to him. He just pulled a face and tried changing the subject. I then said discreetly that while I was happy for dc to spend time with him Christmas I felt he should know that our child has expressed that he was very upset about spending Christmas day away from mummy and that that's why he had started being hostile towards his dad. Ex made no comment on this.

As they were leaving I said well, what are we going to do about Christmas? Ex sighed and looked irritated and said " well I knew you'd pull something like this, right I guess I could bring him home boxing day morning even though we were going out for the day and everyones looking forward to seeing him BUT if that's the case then I will pick him up Sunday (22nd) morning". So that means I will miss out on all the days running up to Christmas whenyself and dc go to church, visit Santa, bake cakes, visit family all the little things we both love. I will just have him boxing day before going back to work.

I feel like putting my foot down and saying he can pick dc up early Christmas day afternoon and keep him for a few days but I know Ex will go mad at this suggestion. He has threatened me with going to court for full custody before and I know he'll say he'll take me to court

The thing is is our dc really wanted to spend Christmas day there then I honestly wouldn't stand in his way and I swear I haven't put any of these ideas about Christmas in his head. Dc is just going through a mummy stage at the moment.

So would I be unreasonable to tell ex I'm putting our Childs wishes before his own am to take me to court about if he wants? As I say I've never denied access and I'm happy to share christmas, a judge wouldn't be interested in this would they?

Help!
And sorry it's much longer than I meant it to be

You don't sound mighty flexible I must say. You say that you let him have dc two weekends a month as if you're being generous and you've had dc for Xmas day so far so it is his turn. I don't think you should 'put your foot down'. It doesn't sound like he's being an arse. You just need to agree on a fair arrangement and stick with it. You keep using the dc as an excuse for wanting to keep him with you at Xmas, but surely you must see that it's self-perpetuating. Dc spends most of the time with you so of course he'll say he wants to be with you at Xmas and so on. But if he spent more time with his dad he would want to be with him. Truth is he probably wants to be with both of you. This is another reason to come up with a fair split and be consistent. There are times dc will say he doesn't want to be with you. You'd be so hurt if his dad used that to deprive you of time together.

Thank you for all the replies, I'm going to take some time to think about what's been said and then speak to exH. Ds has just come home. I'd wrapped some presents up and put them under the tree (not ds's). Ds looked through them and then said excitabley "mummy I can't wait to open my presents, I'm sleeping here for Christmas aren't I mummy?" I replied "we'll have to see sweetheart" Ds then looked really angry and shouted " I am not going to my dads, I'm sick now"

I wish Christmas would just fuck off now tbh. It's meant to be for the children and this just feels fucking shit. I'm so torn,I feel like I don't want anymore tension and arguing so I should just drop it and let exH have Ds all of Christmas, BUT I can't see how that's going to make Ds happy either if he's adamant he doesn't want to go. I feel like the shittest mum ever right now, I can see he's stressed but I don't know how to make it better

"as a Mum I couldn't imagine not having my boys around for Christmas. DH has found it hard to not see DSS Christmas day but thinks it is for the best."

I really don't get this. Why would a dad care less than a mum? Unless one of the parents is absent/uninyerested, alternate years or half Xmas day each is surely for the best.

If you give in based on the fact you want to avoid tension, you are always going to be controlled by this man. My ex was the same. Drama, arguments, all to try and wear me down so I gave in. It's hard but just stand your ground.

Well once it's sorted, instead of the uncertainty of 'we'll have to see', leading to the anger and sickness, then you can get him excited about being at his day's and how special it'll be. It'll hurt to say it but if you can make you boy happy that's what matters. He will have a great Christmas and a great one next year with you.

Are you afraid that he would get residency if he went to court? Because that doesn't seem awfully likely, given you've had it for the last three years and you are generally supporting their contact. And given that DC is presumably now in school near you.

If I ever say anything ex doesn't agree with I always get "well how about I have him full time and you just have him weekends? You know if we go to court I'll get custody"

You do know that's a completely empty threat, right? Any solicitor will tell him that a child who is happy and settled in a care arrangement will be left in that care arrangement, as disruption is bad for them. The only way they'd look at altering that is if you consistently refused to allow contact or abused or neglected your kids. It's a bullying and empty threat, so ignore it. Pigs might fly first.

Offering Xmas day from 12.30 to Boxing day evening is completely reasonable. Offer it once more, in writing, and say you aren't willing to deprive DS of any Christmas time at all with his primary carer, though you are delighted to share that time in his interests. Then don't back down, because your ex hasn't a leg to stand on.

If your ex tries to take you to court for being unwilling to allow him to remove any Xmas time at all from you, he'll look a cretin. And as he won't get any legal aid, I really can't see him bothering with the hassle and expense for no purpose, especially as you have to wonder if he actually wants primary responsibility for a very young child - you say he's not bothered outside his every other weekends, anyway. The "see you in court" thing is meaningless, because he has no grounds.

If he starts again, tell him you're sharing time appropriately and with the best interests of your DS in mind. He has the right to spend time with BOTH parents on important family days and times of the year. If he raises court and "custody" again then just say he must do as he thinks best but you've already offered a compromise and that is where you are sticking. Don't be arsey, but don't budge (though I wouldn't give your DS Xmas lunch at all if he's having one at 2.30, just do a special breakfast with him). And that you can negotiate properly alternate Xmasses for future years, but if he wants all 3 days in future he must accept that so do you, and DS won't be able to benefit from the boxing day tradition - so maybe the split you suggest would be best for all concerned going forward. Don't be arsey, just assertive and calm. You aren't suggesting anything unreasonable.

Having said all that, I agree your DS is probably picking up on the tension and you need to try to big up Christmas with that side of the family to him as much as possible and present it as this fab exciting time he can look forward to. Conflict between parents is the most corrosive thing imaginable for children - it destroys them. I know it's hard, but you really do have to try to be a saint over this, or you'll damage him.

Could he pick DC up at 1030 on Xnas day instead? Assume he isn't planning on drinking to over the limit by 1000 Xmas day..

pinkdelight I don't let exH have Ds 2 weekends a month that was his decision. He used to have him every weekend but cut it down because he wanted to. As I've already said he could see Ds every day if he wanted to. I even looked at moving to exH town so that Ds could see his dad more often but at the time exH had started a new relationship and wasn't keen. I am always trying to encourage exH to have more involvement in his sons life. I told him about ds's nativity but he can't come. It was me who suggested exH ring Ds in the week so they could have more contact, another thing he does only sporadically.

And I'm not insisting on having Ds all of Christmas day at all. And the only reason I've had Ds for the last 2 Christmas days was because exH didn't want him, not because insisted on having him. He would be more than welcome to come here Christmas morning, but I know his new partner wouldn't want that.

You need to make a decision about what you are going to say to your ExH and then stick to it, you need to be able to talk to your DS, it's getting to close to Christmas, it's not fair on him to have this uncertainty, so decide, and you then tell exH.

I can completley see why you don't want to have to get him up, pressies opened, breakfast done, dressed, and ready to leave by 9:30am, it doesn't leave any playing time, and it's a bit shit for a child to be given a whole pile of toys, and then not allowed to play with them.

The compromise that your ExH is welcome any time after 9am but leave closer to 12noon, or even welcome to come over for breakfast (would he do this?) so that DS can play with his new toys a bit would be nice.

You really seem to be putting obstacles in your Ex's way, OP.

You have DS Christmas Eve and Ex picks him up lunchtime Christmas Day and keeps him for the wonderful Boxing Day that he has planned.

Surely that would make everyone happy.........surely? Your son gets to sleep Christmas Eve, you see him open his presents, Ex gets him for the precious Boxing Day!!

Berry, when OP suggested that, X whinged about not getting a drink in before lunchtime!

Making Xmas arrangements on the basis of when you want to drink alcohol, rather than what is in DC best interests, is unreasonable. Your ex has a car, he can pick up whenever suits him, and he should be thinking of what your DC wants to do. It's reasonable to split the actual day if it's important to both of you/you both want to see DC on Xmas day, and most importantly your DC wants to be in his home for Xmas. You enjoy Xmas eve, your ex & his family make a big thing of Boxing Day so it's pretty simple in being straight forward in sorting what is reasonable and in your DC's best interests. You just need to express that to him.

And why do you fear him getting 'full custody'? I assume you have always been the primary carer, and there are no issues of abuse or neglect. It's highly unlikely a total change of residency would occur on his say so, in the absence of any issues of neglect/abuse.

OP said: Me and xh split up when dc was only a toddler, we spent the first two Christmas days together and since then I've had dc Xmas eve,Xmas day and then xh has picked dc up boxing day morning and had them until new years day. My ex told me when we split up he was happy for me to have dc every Christmas day as his family always make a big deal of boxing day and he wasn't that in to Christmas anyway. Fine with me... I feel I should state here my exH lives an hours drive away and on his wishes has our dc 2 weekends a month. I have never, ever denied him access or made things difficult and i try to involve him in his Childs life as much as I can, despite him seeming uninterested when dc is with me.

Pink, how does that translate to: You say that you let him have dc two weekends a month as if you're being generous and you've had dc for Xmas day so far so it is his turn. Quite a lot of editorialising going on there! How on earth do you convert the first statement to the second? And how is OP being inflexible when she gave the ex what he originally wanted, and now he wants that plus Christmas, so she wouldn't see her young child at all over the period? She's offering a split that allows her ex his family boxing day plus Xmas lunch and afternoon, while she has Eve and morning. That seems fair and reasonable, surely, given ex isn't willing to sacrifice his Boxing day tradition?

I agree a fully alternate Xmas would also be fine, but that isn't what the ex is offering. He is unwilling to lose his Boxing days. He wants all her share alternate years, plus his own every year. Not seeing huge flexibility, no, but not from the OP's side.

I don't think pirate is putting obstacles in the way! Her Ex could see ds everyday but doesn't want to. She offered to move closer but has been put off by him. What she is suggesting of 12 pick up Xmas day an drop off any time after boxin day he wants sounds very fair!! Yes ext year could alternate if ex is willing to be fair but why should she do all the "hard work" all year and then not see her dc at all because it doesn't suit the exh??

My ex is like this. Sees ds once a month thru choice and wants Boxing Day so he can see gf on Xmas day yet next year wants to take my da away for the whole week for a family holiday! If my exh was interested in his son more than 12 times a year then I would be fair an consider it but right now? No chance!!

You have DS Christmas Eve and Ex picks him up lunchtime Christmas Day and keeps him for the wonderful Boxing Day that he has planned.

Surely that would make everyone happy.........surely? Your son gets to sleep Christmas Eve, you see him open his presents, Ex gets him for the precious Boxing Day!!

She offered that: That's what I think would be best, split Christmas day in half. That is what I was going to suggest to exH and wanted to know if suggesting that would be unreasonable? Well not suggesting as I've already politely suggested it and was told no way by exH so I guess I would have to say this is how it's going to be. I said he could pick ds up at 12.30 (knowing his mum doesn't do lunch until at least 2.30pm) but he flatly refused because it was unfair as he wouldn't be able to have a drink! His mum only lives half an hour from mine and he'd be driving over there for lunch anyway so I can't see why it's such a big deal? Oh and I should also mention unless traditions have changed that ExH doesnt open presents untill they get to his parents house, so it's not like he's missing out in seeing ds's face first thing Christmas morning or anything.

Ex is refusing to accept the compromise.

I wish people answering AIBU would bother to read the OP's posts properly - not aimed at you, Berry, it's almost universal. I just don't see why people comment, when they've not read the OP with enough care to actually understand the situation? What's the point?

Piratejelly I have not read all the comments but judgign by your original post you have been more than reasonable. Your ex agreed at the begining to your having your son on Christmas Day. I know things change over time but it sounds like he wants to spend Christmas day with you. I would talk to your ex about what you and your son want to happen and try and make a plan for this to happen this year. Can you go to some sort of mediation for this if necessary? Best of luck.

Thank you perfectstorm Im loving all the people saying I'm putting obstacles in exH's way and should be satisfied with a Christmas day split, hello, that's what I want!!

My first ever RTFT!!

I have to say the next time your X says well how about I have him full time and you just have him weekends? You know if we go to court I'll get custody you should say yes, why don't you do that?

A) he won't because he cba
B) even if he did, he wouldn't be awarded primary residency based on the fact DS has lived with you for so long.

I do think you need to start calling him on this because he thinks he has power over you and, actually, he doesn't. So you have to take it away. Does he pay maintenance btw?

Splitting Christmas day in half is not in half if he picks him up at midday. As you then get 3-4 hours, whilst he gets about 8 hours.

I'd suggest pickup around 2pm after lunch. Then he can do the Boxing day thing as well as see both parents for about an equal time on the big day.

I feel I should expand on the custody threat thing. ExH is quite well off, owns his own home, quite stable etc. I on the other hand left the relationship with very little. I currently live in HA home and untill recently was not working.

The second point and the one I fear the most is that despite Ds being a very much wanted baby I suffered from quite bad PND, almost bordering on psychosis at one point. I felt the Ds wasn't mine, that I didn't want him etc. I recognised quite early that these feelings were abnormal and sought help. I was put on medication and had help from the local mental health team and saw a Therapist. It took me quite along time to bond with Ds, but now he isy world and we have an amazing bond

Anyhow during one of exH threats over custody he mentioned my PND and how I didn't even want Ds when he was born . So there has always been the fear he could use that against me and take Ds off me.

Pirate, even with that history, a court is unlikely to change/disrupt your DCs home life, which is settled, loving and stable, on an illness you had years ago which you sought treatment for and have now recovered from. Doesn't matter if he owns his home and you are in HA. You still have a secure roof over your head for your DC. If it helps give you some comfort then why don't you be pro-active and seek some legal advice on where you stand re his threats of taking full custody. At least deal in facts, not threats. Have some faith in your parenting and accept that you are providing your DC with all he needs. Your ex chooses not to see DV as often as he can, so is highly unlikely to actually go to the extreme of seeking full custody given the impact on the life he currently chooses to have.

DC not DV

I haven't rtft, but I did just want to reply to your most recent post OP - would it not be worth while booking an initial appointment with a lawyer specialising in custody, and explaining the situation regarding your pnd etc - I am guessing they could reassure you you have nothing to fear but either way I think it would be valuable.

Pirate he is a complete fuckwit to use PND against you. It's very common and a recognised medical complaint, and you did the responsible thing and got help. All is now well and DS is settled and happy with you. Nor do courts give a fuck about which parent has more money (though I do sincerely hope he is paying his CSA mandated support).

He couldn't take DS from you, PND or no PND. Call the Coram Children's Centre for free legal advice on that, but he couldn't - not that it sounds like he'd really want to. He's just being a bully and a toerag, don't be intimidated by him. You can have mental health problems and not lose your child if you're a good enough parent, and yours are now past anyway. He is seeking to manipulate you and it's just shitty. I should also point out that if he did try to take this to court on those grounds, they'd be asking why, if he had such grave concerns, he scaled down from every weekend to every other week and happily left DS in your sole care for the past 3 years plus. He's not got a leg to stand on. You need to show real harm or potential for harm to disrupt a care arrangement that has been in place a while, and he can't do that with your having had PND, no matter how severe it was. Please don't let him hold that over you as a blackmail device a minute longer, seriously.