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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trying cry it out now, it's so difficult!

86 replies

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 20:54

My son is 11 months old and has been used to being rocked whilst standing up to sleep until now but he's far too heavy to do that with so I'm now trying cry it out after exhausting all other avenues.

The horrible thing is I don't know if it's going to work and I'm worried it'll have a lasting effect on him Sad His dad and I are both at the end of our rope spending up to 4 hours every night trying to get him to sleep. If he doesn't go to sleep while having his last bottle we know we're in for the long haul and we dread bed time every night. I'm up at 5am for work and my DP isn't in til after 11pm most nights with his work so bed times are so difficult. He used to go to bed at half 7 every night and for the past 2 weeks its been between 11 and 12 every night.

I hope I'm doing the right thing Sad

OP posts:
Coldlightofday · 14/12/2013 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 21:34

mumsyblouse, have only read back to your post at the moment from most recent and you're bang on.

Anything apart from walking about rocking him results in him crying and it is physically impossible for us to do that now as he's too heavy. I tried taking him into our bed for a while till he fell asleep but that would still end up being 2 hours later. I tried cuddling him on the couch and singing to him which worked for a week then he was again. Have tried so many things before getting to this stage

OP posts:
NoraRobertsismyguiltypleasure · 14/12/2013 21:34

Being boring is a big thing I think! You have to make going to sleep an attractive option.

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 21:36

DUCKS, he's still sleeping since my update that he was quiet. I went in and he had crashed out bent over on his knees Sad have laid him down flat and he's still asleep.

Just reading the rest of the replies now

OP posts:
Showy · 14/12/2013 21:36

Sorry to ask the questions and then disappear.

This is normal at 11 months. As soon as you said things had been fine before and then suddenly you've had 2 weeks of sleep refusal, I looked at his age. It's a developmental spurt. Both mine did it and it's a humdinger. It's usually when they're on the cusp of mastering walking. The characteristics are usually refusing to lie down, climbing to their feet, screaming with frustration, taking a long time to settle. Starting to nod off like normal but suddenly waking up, climbing to their feet and thrashing about before they are even awake properly.

It's because the brain is working on mastering a physical skill. Like when you learn something new or start a new job and you can't sleep. His brain is forcing him to focus all energies on this new skill. It's not that he doesn't want to sleep, it's that he can't. It's frustrating for him too. His brain is making his legs work all the time and his normal behaviours are letting him down.

If you are sure he's not teething or ill or cold or hot or similar, then this sudden behaviour at 11 months is so, so normal. Usually happens somewhere between 9 and 12 months and in my experience, lasts a few weeks and their sleep behaviour tends to go back to what it was before. All you can do is ride it out however you can. I know why you want to do something drastic but does it help at all to know that it's not something he can help and it will be making him as frustrated as you? I'd do whatever it takes tbh to help him through it. He won't understand and I genuinely think just leaving him to cry is unfair. If it is the developmental leap I describe above, it will pass and he will sleep better again. And you will too.

Coldlightofday · 14/12/2013 21:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

technosausage · 14/12/2013 21:37

Just copy and pasted this from a thread in sleep, I've just done this with my 16 month old ds and it worked really well.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

gimcrack · 14/12/2013 21:38

I used to have to rock mine to sleep whilst walking him. In the end, I did controlled crying as I was being woken up after two hours, then taking three or four to settle him. I was going nuts, then did controlled crying.

It worked like a charm and he started sleeping through.

Good luck, OP. This too shall pass.

NoraRobertsismyguiltypleasure · 14/12/2013 21:39

It sounds like you might need to choose an option and really stick with it - and it needs to be a workable option - so in your bed or the sofa probably won't have the right association. I'm assuming he is in his own room, so you need to make sure that the whole routine after bath(if that is what you do) happens in a dim, quiet environment where you want him to sleep.
I kept trying different things and it was only when I came up with our current routine and stuck at it until it worked, as I said it took two months with quite a lot of crying., but I could be calm because I wasn't leaving her to cry and thus didn't feel like it was doing anything to her.

Swanhilda · 14/12/2013 21:44

Rocking chair? (that would be an emergency solution if he is too heavy to rock standing up)
Give bottle earlier in routine so he doesn't associate it with settling (like in living room with the pjs?)
go up to bed earlier, and start routine (bath, pjs, bottle, story) earlier, so he isn't overtired and over stimulated before you attempt to settle him?
check for earache - this is worst when they are lying down
settle him for naps in his cot in the day, so he associates it with sleep cues (lullaby wind up toy, soft toy which only appears at bedtime and naps)
something that smells of you in the cot, which only comes out at sleepy time - shawl, blanky.

I wouldn't do long crying fits, but I might leave him for five mins, and resettle him, five mins resettle, etc, without taking him out of the cot, stroke head, pat etc.

Also other thing which worked for us (and we didn't have bedtime problems, except occasionally separation anxiety at 11-16 months) was to potter around, rustling, creaking, muttering on the landing, make a noise nearby, so the babies could hear us and felt reassured as they fell asleep, that we were near, and they weren't alone.

Jomato · 14/12/2013 21:45

I was in your boat a year ago with my DD at the same age. I got a lot of advice from a lot of people but until I figure out exactly what she was struggling with and why we made little progress. Sleep issues are very individual and people tend to give advice as though there is a definite answer, there isn't, you use your instincts and your knowledge of your child to find your way through. Good luck.

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 21:45

have done the boring reading/chatting and it worked the first time as with everything else I tried! It sounds like I've been jumping about trying all sorts, which I have, but this has been ongoing for 6+ months so whenever I've tried something new I've stuck with it for a while then he's just decided he doesn't want to go to sleep that way and cries until we rock him whilst walking about.

My DP gives in much more readily than I do. I will spend 2+ hours trying to get to sleep. No tv, darkness, quiet etc but my DP can't do it for that long so has the tv on and plays with him then eventually rocks him to sleep. This totally negates everything I do with him the rest of the time. I feel like he's giving in to what works, which I understand, but it makes it harder for me because I cannot hold him for any length of time anymore. No wonder my baby can't sleep considering he's getting all these mixed up bedtime messages

OP posts:
Tapiocapearl · 14/12/2013 21:46

Hold his fingers through the bar of the cot in dark ness

DeepThought · 14/12/2013 21:47

techno that email is brilliant

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 21:48

Showy, that's what I thought tbh. I spoke to my DP yesterday about it and said maybe it's his age and a growth spurt again or similar and then forgot to look it up. He's def at the stage of just before walking

OP posts:
BuffyxSummers · 14/12/2013 21:50

On his knees :( that reminds me of the time dd started crying and crying for me but I was stuck on the toilet as I was ill. I went in when I was done and she'd fallen asleep on her knees, face pressed against the cot. It made me so sad but grateful too that dd has always been an easy sleeper until now she's older.

Suggestion wise, have you tried white noise or leaving the TV on? Now that dd is a little older, she's not so easy to get to sleep because she doesn't want to miss out on things. I put the TV in our room on for a bit and she soon drops off. That's assuming you have a TV in there though!

Coldlightofday · 14/12/2013 21:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 21:57

Techno, that sounds fab and is exactly the way I WANTED to do it. The thing stopping me was that there was no sign of my baby settling while I was in the room. But maybe I just didn't give it a chance. Thank you so much

OP posts:
lagoonhaze · 14/12/2013 21:57

If anyone else want no cry sleep solution PM me quickly before I close laptop down.

DeepThought · 14/12/2013 21:58

see THIS is why MN is so fab

Sparkly, good luck my dear

sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 21:59

There's been a couple of pays about rocking him in the buggy. That worked at the start before he could roll over but now he's bigger it doesn't work as he has a sleeping bag on to go to bed. We tried talking him out his sleeping bag, ticking him in his buggy and then trying to put him back in it when he was sleeping bit it didn't work after a while (again) so we needed to find something else to do whilst he was in his sleeping bag as didn't want to use a blanket

OP posts:
sparklyskyy · 14/12/2013 22:01

Thank you to everyone who has commented. I'm still working my way through them all.

When I realised I'd posted in AIBU Blush I expected a total flaming. I'm very grateful for all the support

OP posts:
FreeWee · 14/12/2013 22:01

Apologies for the link to nethuns but this web page saved my sanity last week. My DD has always fought sleep and I've got almost to the end of my tether on many occasions and actually at it once of twice. 4 hours it took last week to get 0 sleep one afternoon despite eye rubbing, yawning etc. She is also standing up and bouncing in her cot. We Baby Whisperered her when she was 3 months and it saved our sanity then. So I gave the link above another go modifying my technique for over 8 months (DD is 10 months) and it was amazing. She just seemed to 'get' it! The night before it'd taken 90 minutes and I was shattered. The night I tried this took 25 minutes from start to sleep. This meant only about 15 minutes of going back in time and time again before she just stopped. Then I could hear her shuffling to get comfy and then snoring! It was hard to listen to her crying but it was hardly very long.

She'd stand up and I'd go in when she started moaning/crying. I'd lay her down, pat and shush her til she stopped crying and say "time to go to sleep". Then l left immediately, even if she started crying as I left. I counted to ten outside the door then went back in and patted and shushed till calm. Then left immediately. I counted to ten again and went back in. I didn't do any pick up/put down. I repeated this about 10 times (with 'time to go to sleep' before leaving). Then the last time I patted and shushed and left she didn't cry when I left. It was magic! I never 'left her to cry' except for the ten seconds outside the door (which to be honest I needed to calm myself). I was with her while she was upset, patting her and shushing her. Yes she screamed when I left the room but when I returned she calmed with patting and shushing. The last time she just seemed to 'get' that it was time to go to sleep. It has now worked for every sleep time for the last few days and I'm certain it's the method rather than anything else. She now goes down with hardly any crying, more moaning because she's tired really. And she's asleep within 20 minutes. It's changed my life! I'm so much less stressed at bedtimes. And my DH has been doing it today for all naps and it's worked the same for him.

Of course nothing works for everyone but my DD is a stubborn sleeper and has been since 10 weeks. She would cry for hours if I let her I'm sure. I now feel I have a new baby! Good luck OP. It's bloody horrible but there will be a method for you and your baby Flowers

girliefriend · 14/12/2013 22:10

Op you sound like you have done brilliantly and have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about, you have helped your ds learn how to settle himself to sleep - which is a life long skill he is going to need to grow and develop normally.

You should feel proud of yourself. I did exactly what you did with my dd at around 6mo and never regretted it, as to this day - 7yrs on - she is a brilliant sleeper.

Keep going Smile

Mumsyblouse · 14/12/2013 22:10

Sparkly go with what you think will work for your lo. One of mine would be hysterical if I tried to withdraw and with that one, going cold turkey and just leaving the room would be the best way (s0 CIO rather then CC), going in less frequently as it would just set her off again- although I only had to do this for about two nights twice to get her to sleep well.

My other one much preferred the reassurance of a parental presence, sitting next to, then moving a little away, the gradual withdrawal method when she went through a difficult phase of sleeping as an older child. This took months rather than weeks, but we kept it calm and it did work.

But your husband's behaviour is really out of order- playing, TV, this is just not appropriate with a hysterical crying child who is taking hours to go down. I would just lay it on the line for him- you have to sleep, you have to crack this and his awakening behaviour is scuppering everything and actually making your child more distressed in the long run, because he's confused if this is playtime or not and why won't mummy/daddy play like they usually do?

I think the first thing to do is tell your husband not to, or take over bedtimes for a week yourself so there's some consistency, and he can then take over the next week once a routine is established.

Everything everyone has said about a calm quiet melatonin encouraging routine, plus a last bottle is a good idea- then you know that if you do go for CC you have done everything you can.

Good luck- sleep deprivation is a form of torture and sometimes you have to prioritise the whole family, I crashed the car when sleep deprived!