Now for you Hettie. First of all when I read posts like yours it really makes me despair that this clash of civilisations predicted (and desired) by some is inevitable. Let me tell you this Hettie and I do not mean this as a threat. If you make this a war against Islam, you are literally going to bring on the Armageddon because there is no way 1.5 billion muslims are going to leave their religion because some idiot tells them too.
As for your comments about Muslim women. How bloody dare you! (Sorry Dione I really tried to channel your calmness but I couldnt do it). Who on earth do you think you are to start pointing fingers at anyone? What have you done to help any of those muslim women? Unlike you who are just using them in your hateful agenda, the muslim mumsnetters and I actually give a damn about those muslim women suffering because they are OUR sisters, OUR mothers, OUR daughters. Its absolutely laughable that EDL types such as yourself cry crocodile tears for muslim women in Afghanistan but then spit and attack muslim women in the UK. Oh and before you complain about the EDL comment, if it quacks like a duck then it is a duck and your comment about all terrorists are muslims or whatever BS you wrote is like a neon sign saying "Im an Islamophobe!" What is your evidence for that by the way? Who gets to choose when killing innocent people is an act of terrorism and when it is collateral damage hmm? Nothing political or biased in how that word gets used is there?
Or are we just supposed to accept your labels, so a prisoner of war becomes an enemy combatant and you can ignore the geneva convention and lock people up indefinitely without charge. No no your hands are whiter than white arent they?
Who the hell are you to decide what Islam is or isnt? I am a follower of the faith. The muslim mumsnetters are followers of the faith. Those muslim women who you talked about are followers of the faith. We get to define our religion. NOT YOU! If those muslim women blame the religion for their suffering I respect that and I hear that but they dont on the whole. Let me ask you something by the way. If the institutions in this country were removed, lets say you didnt have a stable government, the courts and police were corrupt and the laws were not enforced or didnt exist because a government was never in power long enough to pass them. Do you seriously believe that women would still be protected from sexual abuse and harassment? My god with all the laws and the infrastructure to enforce it you still get 2 women dying a week from domestic violence, you still get thousands of women being raped or sexually assaulted every year, you still get hundreds/thousands of cases of sexual discrimination and sexual harassment, you still get single mothers receiving little or no child support from their ex partners. What is causing it here then, Islam?
Yet you expect in countries that have none of these institutions, that have constant instability, that are suffering from desperate poverty that they would be able to do what you cant do which is eradicate violence and injustice against women. By the way that is not an excuse that is the reality unfortunately. Its just not a priority in some countries where people are literally fighting to stay alive and keep their families alive every day.
You do not have the right to pick and choose who is following Islam properly especially if the only people who are practicing Islam properly according to you are the ones who are violent/abusive. If Islam teaches that why dont all muslims do it? People can claim whatever the hell they like and there are definitely some who will claim religion motivates their violence against others but unless their interpretation is agreed with by not just muslim scholars but the muslim community as a whole then Im sorry they are just deluding themselves and you obviously. If I as an atheist go and blow up churches and mosques and say that Im doing it for atheism are you going to accept that as a valid representation of atheism? Of course you wouldnt. We have people on here arguing that Stalin or Mao's (or the other numerous atheist despots mentioned) persecution of religious people was not caused by their atheism?
Islam spread to many different cultures that had deeply entrenched patriarchal structures. Some of the attitudes towards women were retained by the people even after they became muslims. That counts as culture. Let me give you an example. I have Muslim friends from the indian sub-continent who have complained to me about the practice of bridal dowries where the brides family pay exorbitant amounts to the grooms family. This makes some people resentful of having daughters (though thankfully they cant abort them or kill them off as that is prohibited by Islam) and can result in them being mistreated. Now where did this practice come from? In Islam its the groom who has to pay a dowry to the bride (not her family). Why? So that she will have her own savings or means of earning an income (if he gifts her with land or livestock). Well if you take a closer look you will see many of the practices shared with other people from the indian sub-continent (ever heard of dowry killings or wondered about the high abortion rates of females in India) who are not muslim. Therefore you can not blame these attitudes on Islam. Instead it is a result of their culture. Especially since it is not practiced by all the worlds 1.5 billion muslims. Islam managed to wipe it out of some people but not all. The same thing with FGM. It is largely practiced by muslims in parts of the world where it is already common and is practiced by people of other faiths. You dont find FGM as a widespread practice taking place in the indian sub continent or in the Arab world. Does that mean we should allow these cultural practices to continue because they have always been there. Of course not. But what do you think is going to make people (in particular muslims) reject these practices, if you tell them that they are actually acting against the teachings of their religion or that they need to give up their religion because their religion is the cause. Islam is the solution not the problem. There are religious, practicing muslims who work tirelessly to help these women who are in need. Its not a case of either or. Im sure those muslim liberals you mentioned would be absolutely horrified by the comments you have made about Islam, the Quran and the Prophet Muhammed PBUH. Someone asked me yesterday if I would express my views in the mosque and around other muslims and I wonder really if you would voice this vehement hatred you have for Islam in front of these so called muslim liberals? And people think that its only religious people who are dogmatic. Read back on this thread and you will find numerous examples of atheists expecting people to just accept their illogical, offensive statements as fact.