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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the Tom Daley thing undermines 'gay rights'?

92 replies

OrangePixie · 04/12/2013 06:36

He seems like a nice man, I like him.

But the fact he feels he has to make a big announcement, which the newspapers all write about and we all say how marvellous he is and congratulate him kind of goes against the idea that being gay or bi is normal.

I think he should have just dropped it into an interview or been papped with no fanfare and adopted a 'so what?' attitude. We haven't come that far if being bisexual is still a talking point.

OP posts:

BsshBossh · 04/12/2013 12:23

YABU. Of course being gay is normal but still today many gay people are made to feel uncomfortable about their sexuality so coming out is an incredibly big deal.

noblegiraffe · 04/12/2013 12:29

Look what happened to MP Crispin Blunt when he came out

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/18/gay-tory-crispin-blunt-defeats-campaign-deselect

Anniegetyourgun · 04/12/2013 12:48

This thread smells a bit to me like two or three we had a while back that started something like "I don't see the point of allowing gay people to marry, why waste Parliamentary time when they've got civil partnerships, some of my best friends are gay and they don't see the point either". Remember those? The OP started so apparently reasonable and open to an exchange of views, deteriorating a couple of dozen pages later (after practically nobody agreed) into homophobic frothing. Supposing this OP does come back I am fully expecting this to end the same way.

LurcioLovesFrankie · 04/12/2013 12:57

I think his handling of it has been dignified and rather touching. As someone in the public eye, and a sportsman to boot, he's in the unenviable position of "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't". My guess is he was on the verge of being "outed" by a tabloid, who would have splashed all sort of invented salacious detail over the front page, so his hand was forced. And as a result, the poor guy is now being vilified as attention seeking.

For those saying "it's no big deal" - well, we live in a complicated society. The vast majority (according to opinion polls) support gay marriage, but at the same time homophobic bullying is routine in schools, there have been recent cases of homophobic assaults ending in murder, there are no out premiership footballers.

Thank you to whoever it was pointed out that the press are now "treating him as a woman" - that's a real lightbulb moment for me! Yes, absolutely agree - so many prejudices at work there (homophobia, the tired old trope that gay=effeminate, the association with "effeminate"="feminine"="woman"="second class citizen" - yup, it's like a tick list of prejudices).

Good luck to him, and I wish him and his partner every happiness.

Original poster

OrangePixie · 04/12/2013 13:03

OP here.

No, I'm not a journo, just had a busy morning and this is my first chance to check back in.

Thank you for the links to the two newspaper articles and they have kind of answered my question, though they make depressing reading, particularly the Mail one.

I do not live Tom Daley's life and therefore defer to his judgement on who to handle the press. What do I know about dealing with the media?!

However, I still maintain that it's sad that he felt he had to do this - I thought we were beyond big 'coming out' announcements. I thought we were beyond discussing it and calling someone 'brave' for doing it.

It's clear now that I'm naive in thinking that but then as someone charmingly suggested upthread, I'm straight, white and middle-class. I don't think that means I can't have an opinion though.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

OP posts:

ginnybag · 04/12/2013 13:12

I agree that he's going to have a tougher road to walk as a Bisexual man, than if he were completely straight, or completely gay.

So few people can get their heads round it - and yet, it's not news. Kinsey was describing sexuality on a spectrum sixty years ago! That's what should be being taught - that whoever is fine, but do it with love and respect!

Sadly, when a teenage boy has to consider the rest of the world when picking a partner, there's still a lot of work to be done on that.

BIWI · 04/12/2013 13:53

It's very admirable and reassuring that so many of you - including the OP - thing that coming out isn't or shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. But I can assure you that it is - whether you're a sportsperson, a celebrity or just an ordinary person.

My DS1 came out about 4 years ago. His first boyfriend had been chucked out of his house by his parents when they found out he was gay.

So, OP, whilst your ambition is fine, you are - sadly - naive in your assumptions.

mummytime · 04/12/2013 13:57

I'd probably agree with your initial comment OP, if I hadn't been discussing this with my teenage DD. They discussed Tom Daley in PSE and she was horrified at the attitudes of some of the others in her class.

I think people like Tom Daley do help bring these issues out.

(You should also, hear my DD on the subject of the girls who saw nothing wrong in a boy fathering a baby at 13....)

TottWriter · 04/12/2013 14:11

I think it's a shame that it has to be a big deal, but in the world we currently live in, it can make a hugely positive difference in so many people's lives when someone well-known comes out. It's an additional reinforcement, a message saying: "Hey, it's okay, you're not alone, and there's nothing wrong with you."

I think it's also worth pointing out that he posted a video on YouTube, on his own channel. It's been the media (Old and Social alike) who turned it into a news story, not Tom himself. Sure, he would have known that people would get hold of the story, but I doubt he would have intended it to get as large and widely-discussed as it has. People come out all the time. Not all of them top the news.

I think the only thing wrong with the whole business was firstly that he had to clarify to stop speculation in an article elsewhere (his given reason for the video) and secondly, that so many people are reacting with negativity. It feeds into the worst thing about it - that it highlights how homophobic the world at large still is. I long for the day when no one is pestered about their sexuality, no matter what it is. Why do we as a species care so much about the relationship status of other people?

DziezkoDisco · 04/12/2013 14:11

You only have to read the 'thats so gay' thread to see how bigoted some people are. I truely hope than in a few years it will only be as newworthy as Jessica Ennis partner or usain Bolt.

But will take more than that for footballers to start coming out. Its very sad how many of them must have to hide their sexuality.

NotCitrus · 04/12/2013 14:45

None of the people I've seen saying "it's no big deal" are people who've come out themselves.
Haven't seen anyone who has done it saying it's no big deal, either.

Also, how many famous people have come out as bisexual rather than gay or straight? A few pop singers and actresses. Alan Cumming. Nicola wotsit the Olympic weightlifter. That's about it.

My mum rang me to moan about what's the big deal, until I pointed out he was in sport and risked losing sponsorship. She thought gay sportspeople weren't a big deal after that young Fashunu lad.

When I pointed out that said Fashunu lad killed himself and not a single league footballer had come out in the decade since, she was silent. For about the first time ever...

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 04/12/2013 15:02

my gay friend said TD's announcement could bring about the 'biggest positive paradigm shift in cultural perceptions of same sex relationships in generations'

(well he is a fan) I am afraid to say my reply just commented its nice to see pictures of TD in just his trunks again

MightyMagnificentScarfaceClaw · 04/12/2013 15:37

The fact that he may lose sponsorship because of hos sexuality sums up for me both how far we still have to go as a society to achieve anything close to equality; and also how accurate the "brave" tag was.

TiggyD · 04/12/2013 17:34

Gay people can only get married in 15 countries. Ours isn't one of them.

Minnieisthedevilmouse · 04/12/2013 17:46

I find that many who are not comfortable seem to dislike people mentioning they are gay because it brings the subject of sex up and makes them realise he's doing it differently to straight then dress it up by being all very inclusive of gay so long as it's not mentioned, ever.

Me? Made me happy for him. Good luck Tom.

TiggyD · 04/12/2013 19:20

True Minnie. As I said on another thread, some people only think of the sex and not the love.

Jux · 04/12/2013 19:58

DD is 14 and has long been announcing herself bisexual, along with most of her peers. However, she does have friends who are definitely gay, but who are keeping it quiet except for a few trusted others, as either their parents/gps would object or there are some - only some - kids at school who will tease or bully them about it.

She has told me that there are several who are feeling a lot happier and more confident about themselves since TD's announcement; even one whose parents would be disgusted (yes, even nowadays there are parents like that) feels there is light ahead of him. It is unlikely that he will tell his parents ever, but also that he would ever return 'home' once he'd left anyway.

It is sad that things seem to have progressed so little since I was a young teen and that we are still living in a society where TD needed to do it (though the fuss about gay marriage can't have left anyone in any doubt about that really), but there is no doubt, imo, that TD's news has had some very, very positive effects. I hope he and his dp will be very happy.

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