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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that my FIL pisses himself on purpose?

96 replies

randomAXEofkindness · 03/12/2013 17:53

After a visit from the PIL last year, DH commented that FIL (who's 64) had been suffering sporadically from urinary incontinence (being generally continent but completely weeing himself without warning every now and again) and was going to see the doctor about it.

I found DH wrinkling up his nose sniffing the sofa after FIL's next visit a few months later, and when I asked him what he was doing, he replied that FIL was still 'losing control of himself' and that his trousers had been wet. I inquired whether FIL had been to see the GP, and DH said yes, they'd referred him for tests and they'd all come back normal. The GP couldn't explain it.

Then last week FIL came again, this time while DH was at work. I noticed as soon as he came in that his light grey jogging bottoms were soaking wet down to his knees. He sat down on the couch Confused and stayed there for about 45 minutes. Then when he got up to leave, I noticed he had a duffel bag with him. He went to the bathroom and voila! New pants! And off he popped.

Sooo, am I being unreasonable in suggesting that FIL is wetting himself on purpose for attention? I understand that the GP saying that he doesn't have a physical problem doesn't necessarily mean there isn't one, doctors can be wrong. What I don't understand is why somebody would not wear pads if they knew there was the chance that they could wet themselves, or why somebody who had a change of clothes would not get changed and choose instead to sit down for 45mins (with his legs wide open Confused) on random's poor sofa. Does anybody have any better suggestions? Am I just a horror (probably, for many other reasons Grin) whose hatred for the inlaws is making me irrational, or is my random-sense tingling in a reasonable manner?

OP posts:
jammiedonut · 03/12/2013 18:28

I think it was the legs wide open? Don't worry, I missed it too!

HesterShaw · 03/12/2013 18:28

Ps, kindness is everything in these situations. My dad has to tell me sometimes he's soiled himself. Imagine how excruciating that is.

ineedanexcuse · 03/12/2013 18:29

Random I know where you are coming from. There are people out there who like to draw any kind of attention to themselves.

My Grandad was this type of person and he did do things like this on purpose. He never actually wet himself but he did pretend he had a broken leg -to the point where he bore having a sharp point in his leg as his daughter didnt believe him. He insisted he did and demanded that is daughter hold him up(large obese man -small woman) when he went to the bathroom.The paramedics were not happy when they came and found he did not have any injury at all never mind a broken leg. Shock

I think you are just going to have to play it by ear each time you see him and try to stymie his attempts at gaining attention.If you think he might want to sit on your settee in wet pants again have a throw that can be on the settee as a normal part of the furniture. If you have something special just for him to sit on he may play on it .

LynetteScavo · 03/12/2013 18:46

So, if the FIL is experiencing dementia and incontinence, the I imagine the OP and her DH could do with some practical advice, rahter than just being told to be kind.

The OP hasn't posted anything to suggest she wasn't kind (although she has unloaded here....)

HesterShaw · 03/12/2013 18:50

She received some.

LynetteScavo · 03/12/2013 18:55

Sorrry, I may be skimming thread too fast.... but I am genuinely interested in reading the practical advice offered on the thread incase I am ever in the same situation as the OP.

If you could copy and paste for me HesterShaw, I'd be grateful. Smile

HesterShaw · 03/12/2013 18:58

I'm sorry, I'm not able to take part objectively on this thread - it's too close to home. I shouldn't have contributed.

DoYouLikeMyBaubles · 03/12/2013 19:03

Have you ever wet yourself? Do you realise how embarrassing it is? Imagine standing up to realise you'd be sat piss wet through with your own urine on your DIL's sofa. He may have been wearing a continence pad and not realise it had soaked through?

I've worked with many elderly people losing their continence and the heartbreak on someones face when they've stood up to realise they've wet or soiled themselves is horrible.

And faking a broken leg is a bit different from 'faking' continence issues.

Original poster
randomAXEofkindness · 03/12/2013 19:03

I was kind to him while he was there. I just pretended that I hadn't noticed, talked, got him a cup of coffee etc. The kid's played with him. Then he got up, went to bathroom and left. If it was the first time it had happened, he needed something, or he was frail/struggling, I would thought of a plan, but it had happened on every visit over the last year and I was genuinely perplexed. I would have gone to great lengths to help him if that was what he needed, but he didn't need my help did he? Or maybe he did. I feel like shit now.

I'm beginning to believe that it might be dementia, it would be great if somebody could give me some advice on what to do about it. DH's brother was sick a while ago, I thought it was something in particular, told DH but he didn't take me seriously, PIL ignored him, I didn't press it because I didn't want to rock the boat and he died Sad. If it is dementia then everybody has been burying their heads in the sand, including me, and I don't want to do that again.

OP posts:
StickEmUpSideways · 03/12/2013 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LynetteScavo · 03/12/2013 19:10

Going by what has been posted, I still think this is a pyschological issue. ]

The man has lost his son.

I think it's a cry for help.

Original poster
randomAXEofkindness · 03/12/2013 19:12

DoYou, I know the look you are talking about, and it wasn't like that at all. He didn't look embarrassed, he didn't look bothered, he doesn't want to wear pads, he knows that this happens, it happens everywhere, he has chosen not to do anything about it. If I was under any impression at all that he felt that way, then of course I would not be posting what I have! But again, I'm coming round now to the possibility that maybe he is 'choosing' to do it because of some state of dementia etc, although that was difficult for me to see before, because he seems completely all there otherwise.

OP posts:
thebody · 03/12/2013 19:13

how did he get home? is he driving? why didn't the doctor do a dementure test/referral. is he confused with you? forgetful? dies he appear upset and embarrassed at this?

there are many conditions apart from dementure and urine infections that can cause incontinence.

he needs a proper referral. .

.

DoYouLikeMyBaubles · 03/12/2013 19:14

It's really hard random when someone doesn't want to help themselves, it's practically impossible for you to try to help them in that scenario. Has your son thought about sitting down with him, having a chat? It would probably be really awkward for them both but it might just be the opening the FIL needs

Original poster
randomAXEofkindness · 03/12/2013 19:14

stickem: If anybody has got any advice about what I could/should do next that would be appreciated (about his state of mind obviously, not my sofa - wish I'd never said that)

OP posts:
pinkcheese · 03/12/2013 19:15

Interestingly, I have a completely opposite problem!

My FIL has dementia and is convinced he is incontinent. He claims to wake up soaking wet every day, claims to stays in wet pants until they dry out, and claims to go through a loo roll every day drying his legs.

He lives alone and we do lots to help him be able to stay in his home. We do all his washing, changing the bed, etc. And it is NEVER wet, his clothes NEVER smell, he never has wet patches or smells of wee. And I have smelled many incontinent old men in my life (previous jobs).

Nothing we says to him persuades him he is not incontinent. His GP says there is possibly a slight muscle weakness so he leaks a drop or two. He buys expensive padded pants from Coopers designed for bladder weakness, and although he has about 30 pairs, he claims that he cant change when he's wet because he hasnt got enough spares. I collect his washing every week so he'll never run out.

So, basically, I think that the OP is right in thinking that her FIL probably has MH issues, possible early onset dementia. Watching my FIL (who I have never particularly liked, but who at least now treats me as an equal!) descend into this twilight world has been distressing for us all, and also really frustrating. It is like talking to a toddler sometimes: he understands the words but not the meanings, and forgets the conversation within 10 mins. But other times he can talk for ages, lucidly and full of interest.

OP - can you talk to your MIL about this? I would certainly recommend your FIL sees the doc again, maybe a more sympathetic one, who could progress investigations into his bladder weakness, assuming he does have this. If there are other mental symptoms, maybe he needs to have the memory/dementia test (20ish questions that the GP can do)? I really do sympathise with your situation and I hate to tell you that its not going to get any easier Sad

Good luck Wine Thanks

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 03/12/2013 19:17

Hi Op, I don't think you sound unkind.
It could be that he has just got used to it and its not an issue for him anymore or such a shock to him as it is for others.

Does he drink?

My DF has many habits which would horrify others but he pisses in our sink, on our back door step has wet himself loads. I really don't think he gives much of a shit and is used to it now. He can't walk very well but also drinks lots. I just ignore it but its hard!

I think the throw is a good idea...maybe he sat there hooping you wouldnt have noticed.

Does he like you?

Original poster
randomAXEofkindness · 03/12/2013 19:18

body He drove, about a 3 hour round trip. I don't know which specific tests the doctor did, I should try and find that out. He doesn't seem confused or forgetful, he talks to dh about sport and seems to be sharp as a tack, but he doesn't say much otherwise - he does stare into space a lot, but he's done that for the 10 years I've known him.

OP posts:
Madmammy83 · 03/12/2013 19:21

You noticed as soon as he came in and said nothing until he decided to get up and change after three quarters of an HOUR? My god.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 03/12/2013 19:22

Mammy it is quite a difficult and delicate subject on which to tackle someone.

SaucyJack · 03/12/2013 19:24

My grandfather regularly wets himself due to old age. It isn't his fault. However, the fact that he refuses to wear the pads that have been provided for him or change his trousers regularly (or even daily) is.

He just doesn't think it's a problem or that people have noticed. TBF his sense of smell has gone as well.

StickEmUpSideways · 03/12/2013 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LynetteScavo · 03/12/2013 19:26

MadMammy, what would you have said?

I can't imagine what I would have said, if anything to my FIL, who is older than 64.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 03/12/2013 19:29

Exactly Lynette, I am not sure drawing attention it, and shining a big bright spot light on it, putting him on the spot would be the best idea.

On the other hand, sometimes being brutally blunt about these things does help to bring them to a head Confused

Meerkatwhiskers · 03/12/2013 19:48

If he is extremely obese that could be the cause of his incontinence. I don't think he sounds like he has dementia to me. He just sounds like he is in denial about his incontinence. He needs to wear pads (which can be provided by the NHS in some areas). Try getting a referral to the continence service at the hospital. It's nurse led usually and they can have a better idea of how to manage his problem and may find something the gp missed.

It's a tough subject for a family member to approach, I'm used to it as part of my job but still don't think i would want to speak to my nan about her peeing herself.