To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

[SittingBull1]

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

Don't get me started on support for Gaelic. Gaelic was never the universal language of Scotland. It's really irritating to see Gaelic signs appearing in places which have no Gaelic tradition or culture such as Edinburgh or the north east coast between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

Octopus, this happens in north wales a lot. I used to think it was an urban myth, until i witnessed it with my own eyes

Hmm, how annoying, I can't find a reference online. It'll probably turn up on my Twitterfeed again in a day ir so. Meanwhile, there's Dundee.

Ill informed crap Caitlin, and if you look at how little 'support for Gaelic' actually costs and what else can be done with that money you'd be surprised.

Really would rather this didn't become a Gaelic bashing thread. Happy to debate politics but given that Aberdeen is actually a Gaelic name that is a really unfortunate example.

Aha! That Napier result. Not exactly huge analysis, but it was a student debate, hardly msm headline material.

forgetmenots suggest you check the etymology of Aberdeen. The prefix Aber can equally be Celtic

And I take it you've heard of Doric?

Personally I think every penny diverted into Gaelic is a penny diverted away from teaching a modern language, which this country does badly anyway. Most state schools no longer offer Latin which as an academic training and a source of information about language is far more relevant.

For some of us Gaelic is a modern language! I'm a believer in bilingualism for its own sake though, and not just to make money. A substantial point of difference with most who disapprove of Gaelic. Being bilingual makes it easier to learn other languages. And for most of us it isn't 'well if I didn't have Gaelic I would have Mandarin' scenario.

I speak Scots, so yes if course I have heard of Doric, but I'd suggest that etymology is ambiguous to say the very least. Afraid I think it is the Gaelic in analogy with other names of its type, but can accept it isn't clear cut. The signs are a diversion anyway - they were being replaced as part of a rebrand and the Gaelic additions were a talking point. And it worked!

Anyway, pretty sick of defending a language that according to everyone is dead anyway, tell that to my DS! Think the yes/no debate is far more entertaining and less personal.

forgetmenots fair points but I still think better teaching of French or German or Latin would be more useful than a language with no application outside a small part of a small country.

As for rebranding, that's a bit more serious. I grew up in Aberdeenshire, never heard a single word of Gaelic spoken nor met a native Gaelic speaker. Use of Doric words? Everyday by most people to a greater or lesser degree. Why should I blithely accept a Gaelic rebranding?

To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

How will this be possible when, in the event of a Yes vote, the UK will not exist any more?

Caitlin that would annoy me too.
Whistleblower I'm sure it does.

The most recent place I heard Welsh being spoken was in a small petrol station in the middle of nowhere on the cross country route from Hereford to Tenby, however they were speaking Welsh already when I got in there.

Artemis the UK is England and Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. If Scotland leaves the rest will continue as the UK.

England, Wales and Northern Ireland together cannot, by themselves, be known as the United Kingdom.

There are those of us who've grown up bilingual? We aren't talking always about teaching but culture. Gaelic speaking kids learn other languages too.

I meant rebranding the scot rail logo etc. I believe the Gaelic additions were there for tourism, talking point and all that but there would have been new signs anyway. I am all for increased visibility for Scots/Doric. I just don't understand hierarchy of language value, it's the reason why so many native English speakers are monoglot - why bother after all?

Anyways, co-dhiu...vote yes and you can abolish Gaelic funding

The people of Britain all spoke Celtic languages from which modern Welsh and Gaelic developed. Then they were invaded by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes and gradually pushed back to Scotland, Wales and Cornwall or assimilated into Anglo-Saxon (Jutish?) society, which spoke a language from which modern English developed. Seven hundred years ago the extremely nasty Edward I of England (who probably didn't speak any of the above-mentioned languages) conquered Wales and absorbed it into the administration of England; despite the huge pressure that puts on a culture and a language, Welsh has survived. At the same time Robert 1 of Scotland (Robert the Bruce) might have spoken Gaelic (his mother was a Gael) but the change away from Gaelic as the language of political power had begun there too. What we now call 'Scots' was then called 'Inglis'

The ancient Britons all spoke Celtic languages because they were all Celts. They lived all over the British Isles.
The Angles, Saxons and Jutes (Angles) invaded and they spoke a Germanic language.The Angles gradually pushed the Britons back to Wales, Cornwall and Scotland.
(Ignore the Vikings and the Normans for now because, although they had an influence, nobody actually adopted their languages.)
The Scots (who were from Ireland) settled in West Scotland, speaking a Gaelic form of Celtic.
The Gaelic Scots and the (possibly non-Gaelic but still Celtic-speaking) Picts later had some sort of political merger, which resulted in the formation of the Kingdom of Scotland, i.e. Kenneth MacAlpine, King of Scots became ruler of a united kingdom of Scotland. Strahclyde was separate and speaking a form closer to Welsh.
At the time of Malcolm Canmore's marriage to the Saxon princess St Margaret (she wasn't a saint at the time) the whole of Scotland would have been speaking Gaelic or some form of Celtic.
The very nasty Edward 1 of England conquered Wales and absorbed it into the administration of England, resulting in huge political and economic pressure on the survival of the Welsh language for the next 700 years.
Around the same time, Robert 1 of Scotland (Robert the Bruce) might have spoken Gaelic (his mother was a Gael) but the process of removing Gaelic from the court had begun. At that time, the Lothians were part of Scotland, but spoke 'Inglis', which is the Scots word for 'English' and is the dialect that we would now call 'Scots'. By the time of James IV (Battle of Flodden, 1513, commemorated this year) the Scottish court was speaking Inglis/Scots and the Gaels (i.e. the original Scots) were regarded as ungovernable savages who spoke Erse (Irish). Everbody knows about the prohibition of the kilt and the bagpipes after the "45, and the Highland Clearances, but it its little known that even in the twentieth century children were beaten for speaking Gaelic at school and the law stated that all lessons had to be conducted in English regardless of the first language of the children. (I don't know the situation in Wales in those days).

I kind of understand the views of people who do not wish to waste public money, but I think we have to see it in the context of the UK state's responsibility for almost obliterating some of our native languages and cultures. The value of another language is not just that you can use a few phrases when you go on holiday; it can represent a different way of thinking and that is very valuable. We spend a great deal of money trying to preserve variety in the natural environment for very good reason, and the same principles apply to culture and thought. Learning Gaelic/Welsh does not prevent anyone from learning French or German if they really want to study languages and it is difficult to see why the Gaels and Welsh should just give up on their languages and their culture altogether just to enable the rest of to save a few pounds.

Very much agree with you on that SittingBull.

There will be lot of Scots who will vote for the first time in this election.

Not because of a misguided sense of patriotism or because they hate the English.

They will vote yes because they are on the verge of eviction due to the bedroom tax.

They will vote yes because they are scared of prescription charges and a two tier NHS.

They will vote yes so their dc can be educated to university level without bankrupting themselves.

They will vote yes to ensure bailiffs cant enter their homes.

They will vote yes to ensure we don't get metered water.

Its about more than passports,its about the poor and vulnerable being let down on a daily basis by a conservative government.

Fauxhat, great post and username :-)

But fauxhats these are issue for a general election and always have been pretty much. You can vote against a conservative govt without voting for independence, which promises to solve all these problems with no evidence as to how it will be done

sitting bull that's a good point but it doesn't address the attempt to foist Gaeldom on parts of Scotland where it is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but forgotmenots explanation of they needed new signs anyway, doesn't cut it. It's just as much cultural imperialism to ban Gaelic in the western isles as to pretend it's significant to areas where it wasn't.

Fauxhat, sorry unless you mean by" a lot of Scots who will vote for the first time", those who are actually voting for the first time due to their age meaning it is the first time they appeared on the electoral role, then that is exactly the sort of emotive and poorly reasoned arguments being put forward by the SNP.

We're back to it all being wonderful in Eck's utopia.

Might I ask why these passionate patriots exercising their vote for the first time couldn't be bothered before? I'd be very worried that the future of the country was being decided by people who had never previously engaged in the democratic process.

But fauxhats these are issue for a general election and always have been pretty much. You can vote against a conservative govt without voting for independence

Might I ask why these passionate patriots exercising their vote for the first time couldn't be bothered before?

Because historically Scots have usually voted for a different party than gets power in Westminster. If you are Scottish there is little point in voting as it won't make any difference to the final outcome in a general election.

Alex Salmond is a canny seasoned politician. However, if Scotland do vote yes, it may well be that David Cameron has done more to promote the argument for independence than the SNP ever do. Scotland never vote the Tories in at Westminster but they have repeatedly been elected in my lifetime. Their policies are abhorrent to many Scots who are starting to see independence as a way to be free of them for good.

Itsallgoingtobefine what rubbish. That is no excuse for voting.

You have I assume heard of Harold Wilson and Tony Blair?

Caitlin, it's irrelevant to you - that's fine - it's perhaps only as ridiculous to foist gaeldom(a couple of words on a sign?) on these areas then as it is for you to apparently speak on their entire behalf. I'd hope Scots and Doric can also receive official language status, after the amazing census returns, but it isn't and shouldn't be either/or. A bit of tolerance for the culture of others, maybe? I don't get upset after all at there being English on the signs (joke..!) I do wish most people felt the impact of such a small amount of Gaelic as keenly as you though - would perhaps raise a bit of awareness!

Actually agree with you that people should not decide to only be interested in the future of Scotland just because there's a referendum - but why bother voting when you won't get who you voted for anyway.

An independent Scotland won't be perfect, it won't even necessarily be better in every area - but it will be what the people of Scotland want.