To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

[SittingBull1]

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

Re voting age, the SNP support a lower voting age, as do the Greens, it has I think been mooted more than once that lowering voter age might help with the apathy issue. Given that SNP would still be in power for 2 years post vote isn't it likely that they would make this so in the new Scotland? This is totally my opinion, I may have read it somewhere but can't find a link. I'd guess it may be covered in the upcoming white paper.

I don't mean to be rude Itsallgoingtobefine, but you need to go away and study a substantive subject, because you don't really understand the complexities of the topics you are trying to bamboozle people into believing your version of

I make some effort to back up my assertions. So far you have provided no evidence to the contrary, only that I am unqualified to comment, and am wrong.

Can I just point out some very basic legal points?

In Scots law, 16-18 year olds, do have the right to enter into contracts, but those contracts are open to challenge unless they are for basic "necessities". I cannot see how or why encouraging this age group to vote in a matter which concerns national sovereignty is correct in law.

This is a legal issue, and in law we are only permitted to deal with formal sources of law. That is legislation and case law. Blogs, newspaper articles and weblinks are not authoritative enough to be meaningful.

I therefore find it completely ridiculous when someone tries to discuss legal accession by reference to a blog writer, or to newspaper articles guessing how the issue of EU membership would work out.

EU citizenship is, in law, a fiction. EU membership is by treaty accession only, which is done by the Member States. ie every right that an individual has under EU law stems from their nationality as a member state national.

Fannyfifer And the award for rude arsehole of the night goes to.... LessMiss

No bloody wonder...

A Scot here, living in Scotland and my vote will be a decisive no.

I consider myself Scottish and British, and find no conflict there... I feel a solidarity with working-class people whether they're in Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland. I have little time for the Coalition, but neither do plenty English people. I'm sick of the Yes campaign - we have over 9 months of this to go and for me it's pointless as there is absolutely no chance that I'm going to change my mind!

If the Yes campaign was based on ideology I would respect them more; ie if they would be honest and admit that they don't know what the future holds but that whatever it holds they believe we should face it as an independent nation.
But instead they spout all this guff about what an independent Scotland would supposedly be like - as if it would be some kind of socialist utopia. I don't believe that Scots are any more moral than people from the rest of the UK, but to hear some Nationalists talk you really would think we were!

I think a lot of people haven't thought this through... If you're unhappy with the result of a general election you have a chance to rectify that in 4 years... If you regret voting yes, there's no chance to change things if Scotland breaks away. So if you're at all unsure I believe you must vote no.

I feel like this is an indulgence on Samond's part but it's people's futures he's playing with, and I can't forgive him for all the worry and uncertainty he's causing. The sector I work in will be plunged into a huge amount of uncertainty and I am the main breadwinner in my household and currently expecting my first child. I am so worried about the future and wish the whole thing was over.

I don't see what contract law has got to do with it. I am sure that in Scotland, as elsewhere, a 6 year old can go into a shop and buy a bar of chocolate.

Given that SNP would still be in power for 2 years post vote isn't it likely that they would make this so in the new Scotland?

Mmmm, I would think that in the case of independence going through, the timetable is so tight for a 2 year turnaround, that the 16 year old voting wouldn't be high up on the agenda.

As I said in my post, the first three sources listed are NOT unbiased, but the do reference their assertions which is invaluable as each side cherry picks facts which back up their argument and feed them to the media.

So statement "professor x says y" go to relevant site where press release came from, find reference, read, and see that professor x actually said x,y,z.

Nothing is neutral, you need to go back to the original source and read. Those first sites I listed are quite good for linking to original source.

Am not abandoning thread. Must sleep. Will be back tomorrow with more uneducated propaganda...

As I said in my post, the first three sources listed are NOT unbiased, but the do reference their assertions which is invaluable as each side cherry picks facts which back up their argument and feed them to the media. So statement "professor x says y" go to relevant site where press release came from, find reference, read, and see that professor x actually said x,y,z. Nothing is neutral, you need to go back to the original source and read. Those first sites I listed are quite good for linking to original source

Beyond yet again telling me what to do, is there actually any content in what you have said?

Why can't you be neutral? Why can't you link to authoritative primary sources, or if not, at least secondary sources such as textbooks. ie ones which have actually been proof read and published?

Who would want to live in a country being dictated to like children and told what to read if you don't agree with a biased viewpoint?

Toadinthehole a 6 year old could indeed buy a chocolate bar, but couldn't buy a car. Protecting what used to be referred to as minors and pupils from unwise purchases is a very well long part of Scots law.

Santana Mmmm, I would think that in the case of independence going through, the timetable is so tight for a 2 year turnaround, that the 16 year old voting wouldn't be high up on the agenda

Not now that polls have shown them statistically less likely to vote for independence...

It was a bit of a kick in the teeth for Eckyboy, wasn't it?

Why can't you be neutral? Why can't you link to authoritative primary sources, or if not, at least secondary sources such as textbooks. ie ones which have actually been proof read and published?

Right back atcha. Again, you have not come up with any evidence other than my lack of education = must be wrong.

Some come on then. Please reference some authoratative primary sources that show that I am wrong/independence is wrong...

About the whole "EU citizenship" thing - here is how it works, because an awful lot of guff has been expressed by the Yes camp.

The EU is a creation of treaty entered into by its member states.
The European Commission and EU parliament are created under these treaties. Accordingly, their powers are limited to those conferred on them by treaty.
EU citizenship is thus also a creation under treaty.

Under international law, a country that secedes from another state walks away from all treaties entered into by the previous state, unless it is a "continuing state". It is easy to see the logic of this - why should State A, who has entered into a treaty with State B suddenly be obliged to deal with State B1 without having any say in the matter?

Anyway. A "continuing state" won't include Scotland. Accordingly, it won't be party to any of the EU treaties and thus will have to apply for membership. This has a number of ramifications. First, under the current rules, any new entrant has to adopt the Euro. Second, the existing states have to approve membership. Spain, which has its own secession issues on its hands might say no. The rump-UK might say yes only if a deal was cut - examples being the continued stationing of nuclear weapons on Scottish soil, or a cut of the oil revenue. Finally, it also means that Scottish citizens wouldn't be EU citizens unless a deal was struck allowing them to remain UK citizens.

FWIW, and this is another point entirely, there hasn't been a king or queen of Scotland or England since 1707. Both kingdoms were abolished by the Acts of Union. However, HM is also queen of NZ, Australia, Canada and other places too. Scotland would just be added to the list - no big deal at all.

It's all a bit academic.

With the possibility of Devomax on the table how many will vote YES ?

Scots not Scotch, your post is offensive.

Janetbb, insert any other nationality or race for Caledonian in that post and see how comfortably it sits.

AchyFox I actually agree but it's not on the table yet. All we do know is this vote is likely to be very close. A very close No vote does not put the issue to bed, and a close yes vote leaves the new Scotland with a significant proportion of unwilling citizens. Best thing the No campaign could do would be to push for devo-max but labour won't want to lose the Scottish MPs in Westminster. The No campaign have been completely silent on what happens if they win - don't assume it means it never gets mentioned again.

I'm going to be fascinated to see the campaigns pick up after the white paper. (Sad, I know...)

Toadinthehole - I agree with everything you've said but all the noises coming from the EU are positive and signal tht everything is up for negotiation. Given Conservative views on Europe it's the rest of the UK who could well leave! We might be the only ones in the EU in a few years!

It will not happen. Two thirds (approx) of us have been saying "no" to independence for years now, but still That Bastard continues to push us towards a hugely expensive and pointless election in what is nothing more than an ego trip.

I hope that when the results come in and he finally has to accept what everyone has been saying for many years that he fucks off to the far side of fuck, never to be seen again. My loathing of the wee toad and his pointless politics know no bounds.

Not about him for a lot of yes voters though SirChenjin :)

The polls didn't indicate the SNP landslide in the last election either so I wouldn't write it off.

altinkum it can't be that important to you if you haven't found out your eligibility to vote. And no you can't. You need to be resident in Scotland.

Devomax, AKA having your cake and eating it.

I sort of agree. I dont really think devoted Max is a good option for either side.

I don't think it is really relevant either. It is not an option in the referendum, and No one serious on the NO side has actually come out and said that if there is a no vote then we will devolve x powers to Scotland.