To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

[SittingBull1]

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

It would be to the rest of the UK's benefit also to keep things friendly and reasonable.
Remember who has the nukes

This is a very good story about why Westminster will be keen to share the £ with an indy Scotland; for those who cba to read, because financially rUK is fucked if we don't.

LOL @FannyFifer! Well, Project Fear said they'd bomb our airports...

Santana, an indy Scotland benefits financially immediately in many ways, but like you I'm too tired to go dig up stats/Yes propaganda, but I'll dig out some links tomorrow. They'll probably be from newsnetscotland or WingsOverScotland, hence the "propaganda" mention, btw.

Caitlin,

I don't think anyone has ever suggested that Orkney or Shetland had been Gaelic-speaking in the past. Do they have Gaelic railway signs? I'd be surprised.

Mainland Scotland, and obviously the Hebrides were/are Gaelic-speaking at some point (post-Pictish for the north east of Scotland) and it was the language of most of the people and of government etc etc. It is reasonable to assume that in the days when the Norse were trading around the coast people there would have spoken Norse and both Gaelic and Inglis were influenced by the Norse language. Norn pockets were presumably the result of Norse settlement.

Can you say why you are so adamant that Gaelic was never spoken in your area?

I've just picked up that you live outside Scotland at the moment, which presumably means you don't have a vote in the 2014 referendum. I think that it deplorable. In a major vote such as this it is all the more important that Scots who have long-term experience of living in other countries and seeing how things are done there are able to bring their experience to bear on the debate and the vote. Mr Salmond is very keen to emphasise that anyone living in Scotland gets to vote, regardless of their origin, and that is fine if they are here for the long-term, but it is a major error in judgment to ignore the views of those who have experience that is wider than Scotland, whether that is RoUK, mainland Europe or wider.

HumpdayPlus,

What is the reason for RoUK ill-will towards independent Scotland? Or is 'reason' the wrong word?

They have never spoken Gaelic in Orkney and Shetland. No, they don't have it on railway signs either as they don't have railways!

Humpday, it's interesting that you feel "chucked". I have previously compared the state of the Union to that of a failing marriage, where one party is petitioning for divorce and an equitable settlement. It would be such a shame if the other party got cuntish.

The Bank of England and Westminster would set the terms of a currency union

Yes. And? It is farcical to suggest that it is possible to be entirely independent. No country operates in a vacuum. And although the UK "owns" the pound they can't really control its value.

But the clout Britain pulls on the international scale is bigger than Scotland alone

Yes, because Scotland currently has zero international influence. Westminster has international influence. Westminster does not represent Scottish interests

How would an independent Scottish economy work then

Umm. The same way it does now? We already put more into the a Westminster pot than we take out. As oil begins to run out worldwide prices will go up. When oil complete runs out Scotland will be pretty sorted energywise as we are pretty good at renewables. When you look at the current figures, even if you dont factor oil in, Scotland does OK.

Do we really want to belong to a club that requires nukes to join? Childish argument

Is it really a childish argument? Most Scots don't want nukes, and what exactly are the benefits of NATO/UN security council membership?

yes, and where is this money coming from? What services will lose out so our passports can be a different colour?
not as costly as remaining in the Union though- you can't state this

I can, and will continue to do so. If you believe that Westminster is doing the best thing for Scotland that is your prerogative.

Re divvying up of the national assets. Seems to me that Scotland Yessers expect that RUK would want to be reasonable/generous/friendly about any such arrangements. In reality, RUK would have no reason to do this

So they will come to Scotland and dismantle buildings, go to war? I'm sure they will try and strike a hard bargain but the fact of the matter is that Scotland co-owns about 10% of most assets, and the divorce courts would agree. This has been done before.

SittingBull, we will have many "Scots who have long term experience of living in other countries" voting in the referendum. It's just that most of them will be immigrants, not expats.

I've just picked up that you live outside Scotland at the moment, which presumably means you don't have a vote in the 2014 referendum. I think that it deplorable. In a major vote such as this it is all the more important that Scots who have long-term experience of living in other countries and seeing how things are done there are able to bring their experience to bear on the debate and the vote. Mr Salmond is very keen to emphasise that anyone living in Scotland gets to vote, regardless of their origin, and that is fine if they are here for the long-term, but it is a major error in judgment to ignore the views of those who have experience that is wider than Scotland, whether that is RoUK, mainland Europe or wider

No. It is fair. If all of scotland votes yes, and all of rUK voted no, then NO would win. How is that fair. OK, scotland leaving will significantly screw up rUK, but what about every nations right to self determination.

If you don't live in a country then what possible right do you have to vote on its future?

This is an interesting debate. One point I thought I might pick up: why is everyone so fussed about what happens to Scottish membership of the EU? If Scotland votes yes for independence then they will probably have to leave the EU and renegotiate entrance. If Scotland votes no then they will definitely have to leave the EU when the UK votes to leave, which it will come the European referendum given the English are overwhelmingly against it. Plus surely if Scotland leaves the EU and has to renegotiate entry then it will get to negotiate new terms on the CAP and the CFP, which could hopefully give us a bit of leverage especially on fisheries?

sorry not us - them!

I also don't understand why some people are against the principle of self-determination. Super-states have always been contentious and it is difficult to make them work

OK, Humpday, I see your point. I'm not calling anyone cuntish at this point, that would only apply if rUK behaved like that after the divorce/during the financial negotiations, same as I'd apply it to a "cuntish" ex of either sex in divorce proceedings.

But it's not all that "temporary" an issue. Yes, the Union benefited all of the UK for a long time, it's been 300 years, of course there have been good times. But for at least 30 years, Westminster has been lying to Scotland about our joint income, and pissing it up against a wall, and telling us we should be grateful for what they choose to give back to us, of our own earnings. If you'd been married for 30 years, (I have, almost) and discovered that for the last three he'd been seriously fucking you over financially, and at the same time calling you a scrounging Jock/bitch, would you stay with him?

OldLady, the fact that there will be some immigrants voting in the referendum does not mean that it is okay to exclude Scots who work abroad (or in RUK).

It'sAllGoing, you misunderstand me. I was not suggesting that the whole of RUK should get the vote. I said Scots living in RUK and other places. They have a wider perspective than those who have never left home. I also didn't say that it wasn't fair but that it was an error of judgement. It's not a good idea to ignore those with different experience when you have a major decision to make.

Since you mention it, it is also very unfair on those Scots who live and work abroad and wish to vote on the future of their country. It reminds me of the old census takers who would record anyone in the house whether they lived there or not, and not record anyone who was out of the house at the moment of their visit. It provides a record, but it's not accurate as to who actually lives in the house.

Humpday, ignorance is not bliss in this case. I think we need intervention by some academics to cover that issue. Perhaps Melvyn Bragg could gather a few appropriate people together for one of his In Our Time programmes but do it on telly too to widen the audience.

Perhaps they could appear on Mumsnet, not in the usual way which allows for five and a half questions that don't produce proper answers and don't allow for any follow-up, but which allow Mumsnetters to be provided with proper academic analysis and evidence and then to ask questions until they get the answers they need. That would be a bit of a challenge to organise. Is Mumsnet up to that?

Hmm. Are they the Daily Mail readers or the Daily Mail writers? They have readers in Scotland too. I've never checked - is the Daily Mail in Scotland quite different in that respect from the Daily Mail in, say, England?

Yes, Sitingbull, it frequently is.

Sitting Bull not sure if you meant me or someone else not living in Scotland in 2014, I do live here and will be voting no.

On the who gets to vote issue I can't decide if it's fair to exclude people who were born in Scotland but are currently living in other parts of the UK. I can see arguments on both sides.

As for Scotland contributing more to the Westminster purse that is a highly debatable statement, especially when taken with UK contribution to the EU set against what Scotland as a region gets back.