To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

[SittingBull1]

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

Why on earth not, forgetmenots?

We live in an international society, for a start. You know when you come off the plane and there are huge queues for Non-EU and you practically walk straight through the EU queue? What about emergency healthcare when you're on holiday? What about international trade and imports? On admin costs- they're going to be huge- where do you think the money will come from?

Tinlegs We will be poorer in Salmond's socialist Utopia. He is already buying our votes with free prescriptions, tuition fees etc and he will run out of pennies soon

You will be poorer but will have to lie and say you are richer, by giving shouty specific examples of "things which have improved". Otherwise you won't get jobs, or your fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, etc won't get jobs.

You will also be expected to constantly narrate how wonderful Scotland is, how wonderful it is to be Scottish, and generally how eutopian life in Scotland is. If you don't, lots of former Cybernats will track you down and bore you to death by lecturing you in that special, half educated way they have without pausing for breath on the wonders of Scotland and Scottishness.

Thankfully, I'm currently working in Belgium, but was back recently for two weeks holiday and hadn't realised how much I had enjoyed getting away from the constant fervent nationalistic propaganda in the newspapers, on the tv, and so on. Its really annoying. I really cannot abide fervent nationalism, and there is fine line between national pride and nauseating obsession.

Whats most likely is that people have a tendency to vote for limited change, so devomax will be implemented and you will pay more tax for the privilege of the above, along with its even more bloated under-achieving public sector and underperformance in areas other countries take for granted. Anything that's wrong with the country will be blamed on the UK.

I also think that the whole of the UK should have a vote in the referendum. I'd be astonished if a majority actually wanted to keep Scotland though!

I only know two independence supporters, they are both, lets say, of dubious morals, and have a kind of fervent obsession which I associate with members of a cult or a religion.

tbh though in the unlikely event Scotland does vote for independence, I'll simply stay abroad, as its not somewhere I want to live. I think it would end up a bit like Lithuania or similar.

No, sorry - you misunderstand.

I'm an internationalist and interested in all of the above.

I'm not interested however in influence, the argument being 'we won't have a seat on the UN Security Council, be in NATO' etc. I'm happy to behave like the other small independent peaceful nations of the world. I don't care about not being one of the big boys.

Sorry that was for santana. Not ducking and running but need to settle teething baby!

LessMiss, you're not keen on Scotland then? :)

Sitting bull The whole of Scotland was never Gaelic speaking. It annoys me that Gaelic is promoted as if it were

In actual fact, Shetland wasn't even part of Scotland when Gaelic was predominately spoken on the mainland. Gaelic was never spoken on Shetland, neither was there a typically Scottish culture of bagpipes, tartan or haggis, and there are many Norse surnames and forenames. Lerwick is nearer to Bergen in Norway than Aberdeen, never mind Edinburgh.

Salmond has never publicly commented on the issue of Shetland independence, which is ironic considering his flagship views.

Territorially, that would take quite a lot of oil revenue away from Scotland of course.

I really don't believe we will be poorer if we vote yes. Sorry if I sound like a frothy-mouthed one, but first of all, we'll get to keep 90% of our oil revenues; there's a huge new investment in the northern fields. Plus, there's a chance of an oilboom off the west coast, which could regenerate large parts of the country shattered by mine closures. Plus, we get to keep taxes raised here; atm, VAT paid in stores with head offices south of the border is credited to the HO, not Scotland. We'd get rid of Trident (we have to, to get the west coast oil) saving billions in a weapon we cannot use but which is situated less than 50 miles from our major populations... Ok, even I can hear the frothiness now, so I'll close with the message that even Alistair Darling concedes there is no need for fear on the economic case.

Are there any small independent peaceful nations though?

Who was involved in Iraq- US, UK, Australia, Romania, El Salvador, Estonia, Bulgaria, Moldova, Albania, Ukraine, Denmark, Czech Republic, South Korea, Japan, Tonga, Azerbaijan, Singapore, Bosnia Herzegovina, Macedonia, Latvia, Poland, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Mongolia, Georgia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Italy, Hungary, Netherlands, Portugal, NZ, Thailand, Philippines, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Spain, Nicaragua, Iceland.
(from wikipedia)

If I am deceived by UK guarantees, what guarantees does an independent Scotland offer me?

Oh, and good luck with teething. Mine has just grew 2!

forgetmenots LessMiss, you're not keen on Scotland then?

I'm Scottish, grew up there and have since lived and worked in a number of different countries. My personal opinion, in a comparative sense, is that Scotland is a country which has a lot of problems, of a type you see not so much of now in other Northern European countries. I can only see these getting worse with independence, because its mainly the attitude of the people in charge and voting patterns that prevent improvement and change, and the whole of the UK acts as a check and a balance on Scotland.

That said, its only a personal opinion. You only have one life, so for me, who can work elsewhere, an independent Scotland is not offering me that quality of life that would encourage me to live there. It also seems pretty unstable and not maybe the best place to buy property, since its hard to predict what laws will apply to it and what tax you will be paying on it.

I can't see why Scotland wouldn't lose a lot of people more talented than me, when they have the option of working in a bigger country with more opportunities and more stability, when there is already a big brain drain, but that would suit Salmond and his ilk I guess, as there would be less opposition to them. And less awkward questions asked.

we'll get to keep 90% of our oil revenues- the exact figure has not been guaranteed, every percentage counts in such a volatile market
huge new investment in the northern fields- Westminster funds the majority of R&D if I'm not mistaken
there's a chance of an oilboom- chance? I don't want a chance! I want guarantees!

etc.

Oh crap, bolding fail!

LessMiss, do you not think that at least some of our brightest and best would be attracted back/to stay, in a shiney new country with so many possibilities? Ok, I understand you're not keen, would you be open to changing your mind in a few years time, if we vote yes?

I'm trying not to froth but I honestly see this as a fantastic opportunity to create a whole new society, the nature of which will be decided by us.

Caitlin, i think it's being promoted as if it was one of our native languages and one which was spread across most (if not all) of Scotland and was the language of government, literature and song for a millennium and which has been deliberately suppressed to the point that it is almost extinct and is worth trying to save. You seem to see the Gaelic signs in the same way that the Gaels see the English signs, but they are not trying to replace your English language culture in the way that theirs was replaced by English. They are just coming into your area to say that they are here and they want to stay, so please don't let them die out.

As and aside, I have met a lady from Sutherland who spoke Gaelic as a child; we were both attending a Gaelic O Grade class for adults.

the nature of which will be decided by us.

But it won't, OldLady. Scotland won't just be able to say 'I want X Y and Z' and get it.

OldLady LessMiss, do you not think that at least some of our brightest and best would be attracted back/to stay, in a shiney new country with so many possibilities? Ok, I understand you're not keen, would you be open to changing your mind in a few years time, if we vote yes?

I have no idea about other people. In the past, I don't think there has been that trend, no. And me - no. If I buy property in another country, I will settle there.

I find the pretending that everythings wonderful that a lot of independence supporters have almost unbearable, and that alone would be enough to keep me away, never mind the other problems. It really is quite nauseating. I think Norwegians have quite a different mindset, and even then, I'd far rather live in Sweden than small, expensive Norway, given the choice.

I just have this impression in Scotland that there is a little bit too much like the former East Germany or the Soviet Union in terms of wanting to control people's lives, give out false information, control the media, etc.. I might well be a bit overly imaginative here, but having lived in Edinburgh for a number of years and personally experience the communal repairs scam operated by Edinburgh City Council, the tramline fiasco, the parliament building fiasco, the awful planning system and dreadful transport infrastructure - so this is why I think that way.

Sorry, Santana, I got a bit carried away there. Obviously, there would have to be many negotiations about fine detail worked out, and I'm not saying we'll get everything we want from that. I was thinking more, once the details are thrashed out, and things start to settle down a bit, and we really are in control of our own budget (subject to whatever bank/trade agreements we make) and our own government, we can start anew. Being a bit airy-fairy maybe, I do get enthusiastic about the possibilities.

Looking a bit like an oil boom to me.
m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-24954495

Trams, parliament, Edinburgh council, all due up the Labour Party.

I didn't know that Labour wouldn't exist in an independent Scotland fanny?

Estimated, expected, looks like- nope. Not for me. I like will and definitely.

to the Labour Party, not up.

London led parties have mismanaged our country for far to long.

There would have to be a new Labour Party as currently there isn't Scottish one.

And how radically different would that a Scottish Labour be to the one we currently have?

I'm late to the party - it took me a long time to read every post but it was worth it.

Scotland, and the individuals who live and work here, are enmeshed in the UK in many, invisible ways. In the event of a vote for independence, I would have to come out of my pension fund (public sector but UK-wide, IYSWIM) because the pension fund is not legally able to operate across different countries, even within the EU. Putting aside the financial impact on me personally, it made me wonder what else would be affected.

In the event of a Yes vote, Wee Eck can't just wave a magic wand and make all these obstacles go away.

Going completely off track I have a question, I am English as is my Dh, we met whilst living in Scotland and our first 2 children were born there. We moved back to England when my eldest was three. When asked I have always said they are British. This has never been an issue but now I'm wondering if Scotland does vote to become independent will they have to choose or will they have dual nationality?

Santana, that's exactly what makes it so interesting! Would Labour in indy Scotland go back to being at least vaguely left of centre? Woukd the Tories become less rightwing, or more? How about the LibDems? There'd be more representation for the Green; or would there? How would the SSP do?