To ask your household income with 3-4 DC in private school?

[Lemoning]

And are you comfortably living, affording savings and holidays and not worrying about money? Pre tax income, and obviously including the school fees in your outgoings, ie: they're not paid by GP or similar.

I sometimes wonder if we're going to regret starting down the private school road because of money worries later on. Our income pre tax is about £200k.

do you already have four children?

We earn a little less than that but much smaller mortgage so amount same disposable income. DC at state primary and doing well. Oldest dc in year 5 and has decided not to sit for private secondary and I agree as don't want her to have pressure of entrance exams and will go to great state (faith) secondary with her friends. Ds1 we might send to private, will see he is in year 3. Op - I would start at state primary pay off your mortgage for next 7 years making secondary more affordable.

My siblings and I were educated at a state school. Importantly, my parents took a very active interest in our education - sometimes too active. We took part in all the school extra curricular activities that we were offered at school, through the church and school holiday clubs. In our house, there was no such thing as the word "can't". When my dad died, one of the things we all reflected on was that one of the greatest gifts that he had given each of us was just sheer confidence that if we worked hard enough at anything that we could achieve anything we wanted irrespective of the circumstances. It meant we all worked like trojans through school, uni and career have all been extremely ambitious.

My dh was educated at public school, at the other end of the spectrum to me. His parents expected him to work hard to get a good return on their investment. In a way, their expectations were identical to my parents. Obviously being at public school, the range of activities he took part in were immense.

My dh and I ended up in similar fields in our careers. We are similarly successful in that we have both reached the top level of our careers. It is me, the state school educated person who is the higher earner. Dh doesn't do public speaking. I speak at least once a month at a public event, am interviewed by journalists and have done live webcasts to thousands. Interests wise, we are both quite sporty so have that in common. We laugh about the fact that it's the state school educated girl dragging the public school boy to the ballet, opera and theatre when we go out but virtually all my interests were formed at school.

What I am trying to say is that state school is what both the child and the parents make of it. Success (as your dh defines it) isn't just the prevail of private/public school folks. Dh and I fell out big time over where to educate our dcs. I compromised in the end and they are/ will be privately educated. It was galling for me giving up our free place at the local state school!

My advice is don't sacrifice your family's stability and happiness by over stretching yourselves trying to buy them something that if they really want, they can work hard towards themselves with your support in other ways. You are better off using your money giving them additional tuition, extra curricular activities, nice holidays, nice experiences and importantly, happy parents with no money worries.

I find that the private school confidence thing can be a bit off putting, and almost be interpreted as arrogance.

Also, Britain with its private schools and Oxbridge is an island.

There is a whole world out there.

I might send my kids to Uni in Holland, where we have family, or further afield ( or not at all).

I find the whole. " must go private, must go to Oxbridge, must become a banker/lawyer/consultant" attitude very narrow minded and limiting.

Not read the whole thread so apols if I'm repeating what has been said

Even if you decide you cam afford to go down this route, you need to think about a plan B in case your income falls. What about illness/redundancy etc

Good state schools probably won't be able to provide back up. It depends where you live but where I am, if I made an in-year application to my council, only the sink school would have a place readily available. The good schools will have a waiting list a mile long and your children may never get anywhere near the top of the list

I suppose what I'm saying is that if you decide to down the state route, you need to do it from the start rather than a back up plan

Good luck!

I agree with hettie, and novice

Your children's upbringing will not be the same as yours, OP, because they have you as parents. Don't project your own insecurities onto them.

Your DH seems to view Private school as a security blanket. Life's more complicated than that.

I don't think it's do-able, you could afford the fees, but wouldn't have money for holidays or even meals out /cinema with that many children, you would be seriously cash strapped.

One thing that has hit a nerve is 'good education' versus 'qualifications'. I have A+ qualifications from the state system, but feel I cannot write a decent letter, make appropriate conversation in some situations, have that inner confidence that private school colleagues seem to exude. I also have no debating skills or public speaking skills. These things all count for something.

Lemoning, I have read all through this thread with interest, and I was surprised to see you write this. You come across (in writing) as extremely articulate. I see no reason why you would be unable to write a decent letter, although obviously I can't comment on your conversation skills!

I do think that state school educated children can lack confidence. I certainly did. I went to a comprehensive and then to Oxford, and I spent a lot of the first year thinking I was thick, which I clearly wasn't. But I think that was at least in part down to my own personality. My brother went to the same comp, then on to vet school, and I don't think he had any confidence problems. That was just him.

And fwiw, in my small comp in the middle of Wales, I did debating and public speaking, and had all sorts of performing experience (in school plays and in local and national Eisteddfods). I'm a barrister now and am sure that all of those things helped me gain advocacy skills. These opportunities are available in the state sector, but you do have to look to find them.

I am now in London and committed to state educating my son and any other children we may have. I do understand why people want to give their children a private education (my husband was partly privately educated and is keener on it than me), but for me it is an awful lot of money for something that doesn't necessarily add similar value - unless your child has special needs that are difficult to cater for in the state sector. At Oxford, I didn't notice a huge gulf between the privately and state educated students.

On a different point, these Oxford admission stats may be of interest to you or your DH. In 2012, 28.4% of total applications were from comprehensives, compared with 26.1% of the intake. 16.5% of applications were from grammar schools, compared with 18.4% of the intake. The total number of applications from the state sector (including FE institutions etc) was 60.7%, compared with 56% of the actual intake. The independent sector had a better conversion rate with 35.5% of the applications compared with 41.5% of the admissions - but
as you can see, the figures are a lot less stark than the ones your DH gave you when you take the number of applications from each sector into account.

The link for these figures is here (click on the PDF for more detail): www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statistics/

Many of the problems with state admission to Oxbridge (I'm concentrating on Oxford just because I know about it, not because I think either Oxford or Cambridge is the be-all and end-all) arise because parents and some teachers tell state school kids that it's not for the likes of them. I think this is sad, but to be blunt, it's not something that need bother you because clearly you and your DH have great ambition for your children.

I don't know whether any of this rambling helps, but good luck with making your decision. I understand that this is not easy.

Welsh

Excellent post

Thank you Welsh, really interesting reading. I will be showing this link to DH! Yes I think it is something of a security blanket for DH, particularly because he comes from a family where parents did not get involved. They paid the school fees and thought that was where their responsibilities ended. I find I have to show/teach him how parents should be, how involved they should be. In contrast my parents state educated me but were very involved in our education.

I have done the sums again, taking into account school trips and clubs which really add up (!) and we are £50k short of doing this comfortably. I haven't accounted for savings and pensions because of the 2 additional London properties.

I can increase my earnings but this could only happen once all DC are in full time school.

I find this thread fascinating. I went to a state school and my children will too. It is an easy decision when private is unaffordable and the local primary is outstanding.

To me given the numbers I would stick with state but splash that cash on all the extras. You could have such a lovely time raising your children.

Lemoning I'm with you all the way.

I'm outside of London. Our joint annual income is just over 200k and we are stretched sending our 3 to private. We don't drive fancy cars or have lots of holidays. It's a lifestyle choice we have made and are happy with. However it is a squeeze.

It is up to women and men to pick careers which enable them to pay fees or not as their own preferences go and their own political views.

Really? The career advice I received, was to go with your skills and interests. Not once did I ever hear of a high income, or affording school fees in the future, as reasons to choose a career. It would have been thought of as rather greedy, I think.

Really? You didn't think about the lifestyle you wanted before choosing your career?
I did. It's why I binned my place at medical school and followed a more lucrative profession.

Lemoning why the rush to pay of the mortgage by the time you are in your mid 40's especially if you are going to downsize and sell up when the DC are older? I think the key to affording the schools is to stop overpaying.
I totally get what you said about not giving up holidays etc. We made that decision, mainly because DH simply could not earn the money he does without lots of holidays to look forward to. He would crack up. But also it is our life and we want to make the most of it, just as I would not want my DC to make so many sacrifices for their children. Obviously we all put our children first but I think the parents have got tobhave a good life too.
How much money have you been saving towards fees?

Just to add that Cambridge (don't know about Oxford) has a student run Target scheme specifically to try to dispell the "not for the likes of you" myth. A local ex state school pupil goes into a school to talk to sixth formers about the reality of Oxbridge.

The government, the university and the student body is united in that they want to increase Oxbridge access. (Suspect it is the only thing they are united in!) Which is wonderful unless you are paying out large sums of money for your child to be one of the kids everyone is united in effectively trying to prevent from getting in.

I don't know what the answer is. I think I said earlier that we are catchment for an awful secondary so we either have to move or go private in 8 years when dd is 11. I really struggle with the idea of private. But we love our house and there is a really good private school really close to us.

Sorry that should have been "Just to add to what Welsh said"

Celestial - you have the right idea!!! Many skills and interests are transferable and you might as well choose your lifestyle in advance, because you may end up wanting to change career anyway! I was advised into a low earning career path (nhs clinical) and changed tack, to a role where I still utilise those interests and experience, but earn twice as much (so now I can work half as long for the same money). Which suits me down to the ground now I have a little one to be honest.

As an aside - I've often been so envious of the private school confidence and in-built assumption that aiming high is just the norm, I aim to instill this in my kids whether they end up in state, grammar or private. My own family never talked to me about lifestyle and income and to be honest it held me back a bit. Even though I was bright I was never pushed which I sort of regret.

Sorry for rambling post! Great thread..

Not gone down that route with three, but costed it out as weren't sure if schools here would suit. Haven't read thread so sorry if this has been said - don't forget university fees. I didn't realise they can't get a grant for everything.

Fees have gone up a huge amount in the last ten years, so you need to project that forward in case it continues.

We are going down the state route with our two. I went to public school and the teaching and bullying was horrendous.
We will then be able to save up to fund university for them and give them a deposit on a house.
A friend of mine spent all there savings on private ed for their first. He then decided he didn't want to go to Uni because he didn't want to get into debt. They have problems with their 2nd as they couldn't afford for him to go private and he has resented this.
Lots to think about - dont envy you.

Please what job do you do out of curiosity ?

Please just of of curiosity what job do you do ?

Ours will be private pretty much all the way through but we are expats living in non English speaking countries. They did their first couple of years back at home in the local school and would’ve stayed publicly educated had we not moved. As it is we’ve had to pay for some private math tutoring for my youngest due to his confidence in the area plummeting due to a less than sterling teacher this year.